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My dad recently went into assisted living and my mother recently went into memory care. I am in the process of trying to get their house and 60 acres of land with a small farm cleaned out so I can sell it. I should also mention that this house and property is in huge disrepair and bordering on a hoarder situation. I am an only child and have been trying to do this all myself. In my state (NY) - not sure if it is like this everywhere - assisted living and memory care assisted living are both private pay which for the 2 of them is about $8,000 a month, although the going rate is closer to about $10,000 or more at other facilities for 2 people. I had a market analysis on the house and property done and was hoping to sell it for fair market value, as it is a seller's market now and also due to their monthly expenses that they will have to meet and who knows what the future will bring. A cousin that I haven't seen or heard from in probably over a decade wanted to buy this, but after a phone conversation in which she completely attacked me about how bad the condition was and how I needed to largely discount the selling price because of this - even though the market analysis took into account the various warts of the property. I would have been willing to take some off the selling price, but just felt she was trying to take advantage of me so I stuck to my guns. The next day she had posted on Facebook that "greed was more important than family values" apparently in regard to not getting a big discount. And a few days later, I got a text from her saying she needed to do some investigation on her own to confirm what the rate at assisted living facilities are because she had a hard time believing that what I had told her was true. Apparently I am greedy and also a liar now. At this point, I just wrote her off as a potential buyer because I refuse to be taken advantage of. And yesterday, her sister called and gave me the same interrogation and kept mentioning how important it was to "keep it in the family." Getting my parents moved, due to my mother having had a stroke, working on their house, getting their pets re-homed, keeping up with their bills and banking, taking them to doctors appointments, dealing with the lawyer - who is highly regarded in elder law and is trying to set up a trust for the property, working with a geriatric care manager, working a full time job, and taking care of my own life and family, has been beyond any stress I have ever known. And then there is the 5 year look back period, etc. How has anyone else dealt with relatives trying to gouge you??

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I can tell you how I handled it...After my mom's funeral while family and friends were all gathered at my mom's house, I had a cousin (that I barely knew) mention to me that he had never really seen the layout of my mom's house and he really liked it. I said, oh, well that's nice. (Who cares if you like it? I don't!) It wasn't long after that, that I got a call from him and he asked if I'd be willing to sell it to family...the insinuation being "at a discount". I had already decided that business dealings with family would equal trouble, so I said oh no, I am not selling the house to family, I'm going to put it on the market very soon. I was pretty clear that the house WOULD NOT be sold to family. I'm an only child too, by the way, and lived thousands of miles from my mom and have 3 kids and had to travel to her house several times to clean it out and get it listed, so I know the stress that you are speaking of! My advice to you is take ONE more phone call from each of these leaches if you must and simply state that you'll be putting the house on the market, and not selling to family at a discount. NO FURTHER EXPLANATION!!! These people do not care about you, your parents, their best interests, they only care about what they can get. You haven't heard from them in 10 years, write them OFF, block them on facebook!

As to the rest of the story for me....my cousin apparently got a key to my mom's house from his mother, (my aunt, who I know well and trusted) and he MOVED IN to my mom's house with his girlfriend and her baby! I have an uncle who was checking on the house for me and called me as soon as he saw my cousin there. Thank God for that Uncle! I called him right away and told him he best get out, that he was trespassing and had no right to be there. Yes, I threatened him, I told him I had other family that would be happy to show up in just a few hours to remove him and if he didn't leave I was going to fly across the country that day and take all of his stuff and throw it outside and set it on fire. He left right away but it was super stressful!!!
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JoAnn29 Feb 2020
What gull! Why would he even think this was right? He is not your Moms child. I hope u changed the locks. By the way, good for you.
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You are doing right by not allowing them to take advantage of you or your parents. Stick to your guns as you have been. The money from the sale of property is needed to pay for their care. I would them give a detailed care expenses list if possible and tell them to shut their mouths unless they are willing to pay for the balance owed to care facilities (after sale proceeds from the property are exhausted). The proceeds may very easily become exhausted. Your parents may then have to get state assistance. Depending on the laws in your area, the state could go after that discount that was given to your relatives. That “discount” would be considered “gifting” money than was supposed to be used on parents care.
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againx100 Feb 2020
They do not need to be provided with ANYTHING. Unless OP wants to , it's really nobody's business, right? Some people just have a lot of nerve, don't they??
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No need to really say anything but "This is the last sale that can do anything to ease the life of my parent. It is necessary that I get as much money as I possibly can for the property, and in fact legally I am REQUIRED to do so. I hope you will find another place at a bargain price; it won't be this one." I did not encounter the situation with relatives, but certainly with people in the neighborhood of my brother when his place went on sale. I said just THAT and everyone was very understanding.
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You do not discuss the sale with anyone. Turn all inquiries over to the Real Estate Agent that will handle the sale. If necessary say..."on the advice of my lawyer I can not discuss the sale with anyone, all questions and appointments need to be scheduled by the Real Estate Agent".
If mom and or dad have to go on Medicaid the house will have to be sold for fair market value so you are just acting as a responsible representative of their best interest.
Ignore Social Media posts, do not comment on them it just feeds the monster.
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KittyKat, your relative sounds like a grifter.

You need to be aware of the Medicaid look back, as you mention.

The law of the land (or at least the State of New York) trumps her alleged "family values".
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The way I view it, the greed is on her side and the "family values" (I hate that expression) is you trying to do the best by your parents by selling THEIR property for market value. Blood isn't thicker than water either.

I wouldn't turn down a reasonable offer, regardless of who made it, but I wouldn't sell at a deep discount before you even get it on the market.

Family can be a pain.
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Yes, main thing is Medicaid if your parents need it in next 5 years. The property has to sell at Market Value. Just because of relatives like yours.

You did good. Now, with the Medicaid info, you really have a reason not to sell it under Market Value.

Love when people come out of the woodwork. My MIL promised everything to everybody. We had neighbors coming over, after her funeral, saying she promised them this and that. Problem was, she promised other people the same thing. My SIL sold her Moms house and got a lot of money. This will pay for her Moms AL. First thing out of her sister's mouth was "how much do we all get". SIL said "Mom is not dead".
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If you have to talk to them again, assure them that they are welcome to make a fair value offer through the listing agent once you list the house for sale. Be firm that this is the only way the house will be sold. Then stop any further discussion.
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Family can be disgusting!!!
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I was also the last kid for my folks when they went into care and left a rundown house and acreage. I gathered up any personal stuff, paperwork, pictures etc., traded some garage stuff to a guy with a dump truck who made 4 trips to the dump , left the 1970s furniture and appliances and sold it as is. I made the place much less grubby but was not about to spend thousands of dollars and manage a remodel from 3 states away.

As for your relatives I wouldn’t give them the time of day. I got a decent price for our place very quickly. It sounds to me like your place should sell easily. I just don’t think you should kill yourself messing with it. I had been through 5 years of stress and nightmares with my folks.

I had the same thing that jo Ann mentioned, neighbors at my moms funeral claiming they were promised first offer on the property. Though I was gonna have to smack this one lady.

I didn’t have to deal with Medicaid because my folks had a little money and now 3 years later, I’m paying for dads care with the proceeds from his property.
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JoAnn29 Feb 2020
"Though I was gonna have to smack this one lady." 🤣
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Just tell these lovelies that they are certainly welcome to make an offer, but you are asking a certain price and that's that. Refer them to your realtor and don't engage in conversation about the sale.

When my grandmother died my OB ( a very sick and troubled man) felt it was HIS to inherit, why, I'll never know. My other sibs and I went to my dad and said if they sold this beloved little bungalow to our brother we would never speak to them again (everything my brother touched turned to garbage).

Dad sold the house to a family and they loved it for years. If my brother had gotten it---it would have been trashed in 6 months.

Let your realtor handle the relatives. That's why they get paid, to handle this exact kind of thing, amongst all the other issues.
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If you are the appointed durable power of attorney (assuming the POA is activated as your parents are considered incapable of managing their financial affairs,) you have the fiduciary obligation to act in their best interest. So you put the property for sale with a real estate agent who can guide you in the process and determine the correct asking price. The proceeds from any sale will be used to pay their fees for the facilities they are in. When that money runs out, Medicaid will kick in to pay those fees.

You are under no obligation to answer to cousins or other relatives. Presumably as the only child, you will inherit any remaining property or money when the parents pass. The relatives have absolutely no claim on their estate. Shut down the Facebook account and don't return calls or messages from the family vultures who are out there. Your life will be simplified just by doing that.
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Question: Are you or do you have POA? or Guardianship. If not, I would be concerned about the cousins trying to gain access to her assets through filing for Guardianship. I know it seems far-fetched - but we all know how devious so-called "family" members can be. You can explain, or put them off all you want - but damn what if they were to do something deviously legal around you. What if they Lawyer up? Lawyers are bastards when it comes to this stuff.

I know all this depends on the mental condition of your parents and what legal instruments you already have in place.

I'm currently witnessing my neighbor get swindled out of his home because his wife died. Wife's siblings are swooping in and taking what really should belong to him through the will. Costing everyone more $$ where the $$ shouldn't be going! He'll get a settlement - but way less then what it really should be because of the cost of attorney's.

My husband and I went through a bit of this kind of stuff with his cousin and even his son after the death of his mother. Too much $$ went to the lawyers, $$ lost because of market change (2008-2010) during the back and forth of arguing - what a freakin mess it was. And it really didn't have to be.

Very sad.

It was just a thought that ran through my head. Hopefully someone else can expound on this possibility or dis-pell it.

Good Luck and hope you find yourself on the winning end of your situation.
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Your cousin's behaviour is outrageous and/but you are far too busy to worry about it.

Put the house on the market. If she wants to make an offer she will be free to do so, same as any other buyer - and you won't ever have the hassle of explaining why you sold it below market value.

I'm sorry these cousins have crawled out of the woodwork. Would you miss them if they crawled back in, permanently?
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I was surprised to discover how greedy relatives can be, and how much they anticipate that they should be given the opportunity to select what they want.   

Some neighbors are just as bad.   One told me what she wanted:  she enumerated them.    Another was just as greedy.    And others thought they should have a discount on buying the house, with various reasons cited as to what they planned to do with it.   

I think the flower thief was the ultimate in rudeness and arrogance though.   A neighbor called, with the flower thief at her house, asking me to talk to her as she had been spotted with a shovel starting to dig up plants at the house.   Fortunately, another neighbor told her she should ASK before she assumed the right to take someone's plants.

Obviously, she got nothing.   


KittyKat,

Whether you're acting as the daughter, or pursuant to any legally granted authority, you act on behalf of your parents, as owners.    It's not incumbent on you to grant favors or discounts to anyone, including greedy relatives.  

Just tell them you're exploring all options, or something like that, and don't take their calls any more.   Don't feel badly about being firm; they certainly aren't feeling badly about being greedy or rude.
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I didn't have any relatives with their hands out but one of the men who had rented mom's land made a low ball offer and tried to tell me that land wasn't worth as much a I believed, even though I had paid for an independent appraisal. This man had made a point of visiting and being very friendly to my parents and especially my mom after she was alone, I can't help but feel that it was all just an attempt to worm his way into our good graces since we never heard from him again after the sale - I'm especially bitter that we didn't even get a condolence from him after she passed. When dealing with the all of neighbours who my mom depended on someone once couselled me not to worry about doing special favours for anyone because they most certainly wouldn't hesitate to put their own interests above mine.
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Hi:

Talk to an elder-care attorney about the five year look back. The house may be exempt, depending on how ownership was held or transferred.

As for your relatives, Show them the appraisal and tell them you would be willing to sell it for the appraised price.

If you want to be extra nice you can discount the real estate agents commission, if you do not list it first and sell it to them directly.

Your family members are the greedy ones.

You do not need the stress they are causing you. If they were good relatives, they would be emotionally supportive.
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CWillie, I've had similar experiences with people who think they're going to scoop up lake property by degrading it, warning me how hard it would be to fix it up (being a woman, of course),  to get a better bargain.   

One kind of nutty guy was a contractor who I asked for a quote for some work.   When he called, he brushed off the issue of a quote and said he wanted to buy the property, demolish the house and build 2 rentals on the property.   He made that decision in the time it took to walk around the house, inside sight unseen.

And he wanted me to meet him the next day to work out the details of the sale.    No way.

I think in the last year I've met more weirdos than over several years.   And some even claimed to be contractors.    I researched as many as I could, and used Google to see what kind of offices they had.

The one who wanted to close the deal the next day had a literal dump for an office, cans and junk covered by tarps in the yard, weeds over knee high, and more.  One contractor's address was a vacant field, on all sides (although Google may have taken the photo decades ago (!) before the office was built).

(At one time I considered buying some cargo pants, stuffing them with tools, wearing a Rosie the Riveter scarf on my head, adding some smudges and dirt, and walking out of the shed to meet these wanna be Nicole Curtis or Holmes people.)

There were only a few who treated the property and me with respect.  Others just saw  lake property, big workshop, and old lady who they assumed could be manipulated and cheated.
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OMG, looks like everyone has experienced some kind of greed. The one that gets me is siblings feeling they have a right to a married siblings belongings when a spouse is still in the picture.

I would just tell "cousin" that u have talked to a lawyer and he/she explained that not selling at Market Value could effect ur parents receiving Medicaid in the future if their money runs out.
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Like you have time to deal with distant greedy family buttrash.

heres my suggestion as you have a lawyer:
do a letter - sent certified mail with the return registered card - to each of them a terse 3 paragraph letter. 1st is thanks for your interest in the property & put in property address. 2nd paragraph is that they need to tender their offer and in detail as to earnest money and then balance in full AND they send that information to the attorney within 15 days of receipt of this letter. 3rd paragraph is that any & all future communication needs to be through the attorney.

id not put in any reference to the Realtor in the letter. Or respond to any future emails or phone calls from them. I would however monitor thier social media and take screen shots of any mentions of mom, the land, you, etc. & these you just in case keep.

I’d ask your moms facility to let you know if either of these grifters or their kids show up to “visit” mom too.
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FloridaDD Feb 2020
I don't know if you want to add to the letter than any sales of property at less than FMV may result in loved one not being able to get Medicaid paid for, for at least a period of time.  While everyone who reads Agingcare is aware of this, I am not certain newbies to the arena of elder care do.
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