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She says that is something you don't discuss with your daughter. I am the only family she has left living also. She had a stroke aslmost 5 yrs ago. she is at home cannot walk or take care of herself either I need help I cannot do it.
One way I got my parents to update their older than dirt wills was to fib to them that the State would take a big chunk of their money when they pass on due to new laws. That got my folks in to see an Elder Law Attorney pretty quick.
Some elder law attorneys will come to the house. See if you can find one. Then your mother can make a will and discuss insurance. And you won't be involved.
Besides having a lawyer to help her if your mom has not set things in place. She needs some one who will speak for her if she is not able to do that. If for what ever reason she does not feel that you are able to or responsible enough to carry out her wishes then she needs a neutral person to do these things for her. How would you feel if she did have every thing set up and you could not find her papers because she became comatose and did not tell you where they were and when you found them she had requested a Do not Resuscitate and she is on life support against her wishes?
One is to ask a pastor, Rabbi or an old friend to talk with her. Often elders don't like having their "kids" tell them to do these things but they'll listen to someone else whom they admire or trust.
The second is to go and get your own legal papers done. Let her know you are doing this and invite her along. Even is she doesn't go with you right away, she may get the message that this isn't something that older people need to do. Everyone over 18 needs to have someone who can legally speak for them if something happens where they can't speak for themselves. Good luck! Carol
You do not say that she has dementia. Just because a person cannot walk does not make them incompetent. Drop the subject for now, and when she is ready, then try again. It sounds by her statement she still sees you as a child, so either change that perception or wait for her to come around to discussing it. She may never do it, but she probably will with a male attorney.
I like that suggestion of freqflyer - seniors are always concerned with "their money" going to the government! That is why those of us who are really lucid have already made arrangements and tried every way we can to make sure our money does not go to Uncle Sam to waste! By all means scare you mother into thinking if she doesn't do it, the govt will take it. In fact, in the state of NY - if a person dies intestate there is a big upfront fee, and then when it is settled - the state of NY gets 30% right off the top.
I agree with all the above answers. No one mentioned her physician or her accountant. Does she have someone she trusts who could make this suggestion to her. You put the idea into the professional's head. Then the next time she has a reason to see that professional, he can ask her what her plans are, what music she wants played at her funeral perhaps to get the subject started. So many elders care about the funeral service. My husband never wanted to discuss how he wanted to be buried. Until we went to an aunt of his' funeral. The woman was 102. Everyone spoke about her. The ceremony went on for a long time. Finally my husband looked at me and said, "I don't want this." As we walked out , I asked "So what do you want?" And he told me quite explicitly how he wanted just a cemetery site gathering with the Army Bugle Corps to play taps, he wanted the flag ceremony. Then we got down to payments and everything got done so I knew just what to do when he passed.
I'm not sure why you need to discuss life insurance with your mother. Does she have any financial dependants?
If she will not discuss a living will, or deal in any way with the subject of her wishes in the event of her needing life saving treatment or a high level of care, then you and any professionals involved will need to use your best judgement on her behalf. And if she then doesn't like the decisions made for her, too bad - she should have stated a preference when she was offered the opportunity. That doesn't help her, of course; but it should rightly make you feel better. It's not your fault she wouldn't speak up when she could.
If she restates that it isn't proper to talk about such things with one's daughter, that is your chance to ask her whom she does think it appropriate to discuss them with. Explain that if she gives instructions to nobody at all, she may later on be helpless to influence her own medical and nursing care. Suggest other people she can talk to; and/or suggest that she write it down. You can get various forms and questionnaires online that might be helpful to her.
If you are concerned about how to manage her finances should she lose mental capacity, get or download some leaflets about powers of attorney and leave them with her. She is the one who will really, physically suffer if she needs expensive care or support and she's effectively made her funds inaccessible. She'll probably tell you she doesn't care. In that case, you might be tempted to use the good old-fashioned retort to naughty children: "Don't Care was made to care, Don't Care was hung, Don't Care was put in a pot and boiled 'til he was done..." Tempted, but don't! Instead, just point out that she might well care in future, but it will be Too Late.
Sometimes it helps if you tell elders that what they would be doing (in signing a Power or Attorney, Appointment of Healthcare Representative, Living Will, etc.) is controlling what happens to them if they can't speak for themselves. These Advance Directives are there to direct you in what to do if your mom has a stroke, heart attack, etc. If she doesn't want you to have the power, then she can appoint someone else. If she doesn't appoint someone now, while she is mentally capable, she may have a stranger appointed by the court to make such decisions about her life and care. (Not likely, but she doesn't need to know that.) She can also have her Power of Attorney only become effective at such time she cannot make her own decisions. The first step is to get her to talk to an elder law attorney. It is also important for her to know she will not be forced to sign anything she doesn't want to sign.
Do you already have POA and Medical HIPPA disclosures or is all this what you are trying to accomplish? If you are 'trying' to accomplish this stuff, then I agree to either call or fax note to her doctor, asking that dr. brings up the need to do these things at her age, or to express need to consult with attorney for advice, so that the gov't doesn't capture all assets. IF you are providing caregiving now, and she cannot be alone, you should NOT be using your own financial resources. You need to preserve your own savings/retirement for your latter life needs. If she doesn't have enough financial resources, it's time to apply for Medicaid, and all this will need to be done anyhow. Any friends close to her age that could be asked to bring it up with her? My parents had all this stuff in place, and Dad very openly made his own burial arrangements, but Mom, who is now still with us will NOT discuss anything with me. She just says, she is not going to die (she is 90 with many health problems, plus now Alzheimer's too, but denies them all...) and intends to live as long as her father did (almost 101....but he was a healthy guy.) Her lawyer tells me that by her not being willing to discuss, she is indicating an inability to make a decision so, legally, with POA, I can make those arrangements myself, considering the income left and what I know about her wishes. However, it still leaves me conflicted, because Dad was cremated and buried in a VA cemetery, 3 hours from here, and she was well aware of his choices. She, however, is afraid of fire and refuses to even discuss cremation, but wants to be with him, but wants a full casket funeral with all her friends there (this is based on her descriptions of others funerals....and saying general things like....that was so nice. I would like many to come see me....etc...very kind of dumb statements, in the past.... She has no friends or relatives who live close by. Just family, who will come, no matter what, but a great expense to pay for a body to be moved 4 hours, and then a casket service and then changing all out how Dad was buried so they could be together. So I am still leaning to simply plan a cremation as we did for him, and not talk about it with her anymore, since she continues to not even want to discuss a 'do not resusitate' order for herself at her age, with her problems. I am just assuming she is not capable of making a rationale decision herself.
I like Carol's suggestions. I like Ferris's attitude, too.
It would be very, very good if your mom gets her ducks in a row now. That will ensure her wishes are more likely to be carried out, and make life a little easier for you. But if she doesn't, she doesn't. It will all work out.
I imagine that when the time comes you can find her life insurance papers. If she hasn't communicated whether she wants cremation or burial, etc. then you get to decide. If she doesn't leave a will, you will inherit as next of kin. In my experience, doctors and social workers, etc. etc. will ask you to make decisions.
It will be harder and messier, but you will be able to handle it. Be grateful you don't have siblings to fight with over decisions.
We were never able to get my mother to do any planning or sign any papers. But over the years we have learned her attitudes and wishes. Her nursing home has simply asked us to designate one of us as her "primary contact" and then they asked her if that was OK. No DPOA, no medical proxy, no formal papers. Fortunately my 3 sisters and I work well together in her best interests and our 3 brothers leave us to make decisions.
So, while I have my own ducks in a row, I am not suffering because my mother didn't/doesn't.
@Joanne's - I'm in the same position with my mom - who is 91. She has no POA, no living will, no financial POA. I'm on her bank account but with no privileges...I can just look at the balance. And her current will has been out of date for almost six years and was done in a different state. I'm her executor but I know nothing - and I live in a different state. My sister lives with her but my mom won't consider her as executor. My mom has no serious health issues at the moment but we know that can change quickly. SO frustrating!!!
One thing I have noticed over the years that some older women won't talk to their daughters about Wills, POA's, etc. but they will talk to a son or grandson. A daughter could be a CPA plus have a law degree, and her Mom would only take advice from a son who had no background in such matters.
Both of my parents did their wills, POA's, etc. in their 70's. I was asked to come along to the funeral home when they made their arrangements, everyone was in a good mood and then we all went out to lunch. I'm 61 and have a will, but it needs to be updated. So I will do that and pre-plan my funeral (which I think will be as an anatomical donation and then cremation) and offer my children to come with and make a nice day of it. It will take the burden off of them and I get what I want. I think a lot of people who refuse to pre-plan their end of life decisions do it because they are afraid that if they do, they will die right away or sooner than they should of (?). Does she feel this way? In my family the stages of life are ALL celebrated and as far as I can tell, none of us are afraid to die, or afraid to live. Is she able to discuss her ideas about her dying with you or her friends or priest (pastor/rabbi etc).? Good luck.
I have become my mother's caregiver in the last year and a half. It came upon us suddenly and we were totally unprepared. I would explain to your mother as I did mine that if she doesn't make out a will and a living will, and decide on her funeral arrangements, etc. that someone, most likely her doctor, the hospital, or the government will decide for her, so she can talk it through, write it down, make it legal and have it done her way, or she can put her future and her destiny in the hands of people who have zero emotional investment in her wishes and/or well being. We talked through all of these things with my mother and it's all settled, written out and ready to go. It makes for a lot less stress for sure.
I'm 82,and a bit disabled but am able to live in my own home and take care of myself. Wanting to be sure I was making the best preparations for my children and grand children, I insisted children participated in my final preparations. It included discussing and establishing will, living will and even Medical and Endurable Powers of Attorney. Want to leave them as much as I can legally with as few complications as possible.I feel this is my responsibility and children should share in this responsibility. Some day they will have to go through this. Show her this and I hope it helps.
I am so glad I had Mom draw up POAs whn she redid her will after Dad died. She started showing signs of Dementia not long after. Don't like doing her bills but I learned alot about her finances by doing them. Before she got too bad, asked her to get all her important papers together so I didn't have to look for them.
A lot of good suggestions here. I will add to be very cautious of who your mom does pick as POA, Trustee, etc. My father was extremely meticulous about his end of life plans, and because we, his daughters, did not live near him, he named a "friend" who turned out to be an elder predator, as POA, who blocked as soon as my father was diagnosed with dementia and could no longer understand what was happening. It was NOT my father's wishes to have his daughters isolated from him or to not be able to advocate and take care of him, but the POA document gives the POA all power, much like a "guardian/conservator." The lawyer who put together my Dad's End of Life documents and Trust, also crooked, coerced my dad into removing me as co-Trustee. They appointed the POA as Trustee, so now there are no checks and balances, he has complete control over the money and our fathers entire life, he blocked us, and we have no recourse other than legal representation that has cost us a fortune. Just because some " friend" seems trustworthy, or a lawyer, it doesn't mean anything. Sociopaths are everywhere and will charm you then take control of your life. Having a court appointed guardian is also a nightmare. If your mom has assets, even a couple of hundred thousand dollars, she is at risk. I suggest everyone check out the website (National Association to Stop Guardian Abuse). In our case it was a POA/Trustee and his crooked lawyer, not a guardian per se, but they have similar rights to block family from the elder and control their life and assets. This website might be a good tactic to motivate your mom to make sure she has things set up. She does NOT want to end up like any of the people on this website, a prisoner of the courts and of the guardian system. She needs to have the right people making decisions for her when she is unable to do so. And yes. If she does not have a will set up, the money will go to the government. So sometimes scare tactics, or scare education, is worth a try. And finding someone she does trust tontalk to
Riley90, what a terribly sad story! Thank you for sharing this cautionary tale with us. Thank you, also, for mentioning this site: National Association to Stop Guardian Abuse. Take care, Carol
I recently read an interesting article in the recent AARP Bulletin. Physicians can now bill Medicare for discussing things like Hospice care, Don Not Resuscitate Orders and living wills. Maybe you can bring this up next time you bring your Mom to the doctor and mention you had the same discussion with your doctor...and you should. Also check to find out if the DNR is enough or is a P.O.L.S.T better, that is Physicians Order for Life Sustaining Treatment and it is much more detailed than a DNR.
My MIL steadfastly refused to make any kind of plans, no wills, no EOL decisions, etc. I mentioned, one day, just in passing, that since she didn't have a will, the kids would have no say in the distribution of her things, OH and also, she would have a total stranger (state appt executor) going through her drawers, literally, to get an inventory of her belongings. She was appalled enough to have a will drawn up. As far as EOL care, she won't make decisions, so that could be rotten---but at least the legal end of stuff is dealt with. (She does not plan to ever die, so.....she says it's not an issue. She's 86).
" (She does not plan to ever die, so.....she says it's not an issue. She's 86)." I had to snort with laughter when I read this! In some ways, my mother is the same. She is not going to need an AL place for "at least two years." She is going to sign checks and remain in control of her finances even at a nursing home. She has excellent LTC insurance, yet never intends to use it. (She thinks her Daughter-Slave is going to take care of her, but that is not going to happen.) She does admit that she will die someday (so there's that...she does not think she's immortal).
CTTN55-- Yeah, my mom is the same way. Fabulous LTC policy that dad put in place years ago and the premiums are always paid up--yet she will never be "placed". My brother (the family martyr) will keep her home forever. He is now planning the sooner than later installation of a lift in her room. So he can hoist her into the wheelchair she'll be in within another year or so. Won't let the rest of the family in on any decisions, etc....my mother doesn't think she'll last forever, just until she 106. She is also 86. My mother and MIL knew each other in HS, and I think they are trying to outdo each other, somehow. MIL is actually in good health, but mentally pretty batty, but she's always been that way. I really think my MIL will outlive my hubby and his older brother. She's that ornery. Then she's MY problem and she just absolutely hates me.
Midkid58, I think everyone (my mother, my 3 brothers) would be delighted if I agreed to be the family martyr. But I won't be that person. This is the 10th day without any contact from my mother, and I'm not complaining!
Midkid58...check the LTC policy some will pay for in home care. And if your Mom is eligible for Hospice all the equipment that is necessary will be provided so there may be no need for your brother to install a lift system. also there may be no need for a lift a Hoyer is very easy to use and requires a push of a button to lift someone from bed to a chair.
tiffie54: Mom says "this is something you don't discuss with your daughter." Your response to her should be "then who do you plan to discuss it with to get this accomplished pronto?"
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She needs some one who will speak for her if she is not able to do that. If for what ever reason she does not feel that you are able to or responsible enough to carry out her wishes then she needs a neutral person to do these things for her. How would you feel if she did have every thing set up and you could not find her papers because she became comatose and did not tell you where they were and when you found them she had requested a Do not Resuscitate and she is on life support against her wishes?
One is to ask a pastor, Rabbi or an old friend to talk with her. Often elders don't like having their "kids" tell them to do these things but they'll listen to someone else whom they admire or trust.
The second is to go and get your own legal papers done. Let her know you are doing this and invite her along. Even is she doesn't go with you right away, she may get the message that this isn't something that older people need to do. Everyone over 18 needs to have someone who can legally speak for them if something happens where they can't speak for themselves.
Good luck!
Carol
In fact, in the state of NY - if a person dies intestate there is a big upfront fee, and then when it is settled - the state of NY gets 30% right off the top.
Finally my husband looked at me and said, "I don't want this." As we walked out , I asked "So what do you want?" And he told me quite explicitly how he wanted just a cemetery site gathering with the Army Bugle Corps to play taps, he wanted the flag ceremony. Then we got down to payments and everything got done so I knew just what to do when he passed.
If she will not discuss a living will, or deal in any way with the subject of her wishes in the event of her needing life saving treatment or a high level of care, then you and any professionals involved will need to use your best judgement on her behalf. And if she then doesn't like the decisions made for her, too bad - she should have stated a preference when she was offered the opportunity. That doesn't help her, of course; but it should rightly make you feel better. It's not your fault she wouldn't speak up when she could.
If she restates that it isn't proper to talk about such things with one's daughter, that is your chance to ask her whom she does think it appropriate to discuss them with. Explain that if she gives instructions to nobody at all, she may later on be helpless to influence her own medical and nursing care. Suggest other people she can talk to; and/or suggest that she write it down. You can get various forms and questionnaires online that might be helpful to her.
If you are concerned about how to manage her finances should she lose mental capacity, get or download some leaflets about powers of attorney and leave them with her. She is the one who will really, physically suffer if she needs expensive care or support and she's effectively made her funds inaccessible. She'll probably tell you she doesn't care. In that case, you might be tempted to use the good old-fashioned retort to naughty children: "Don't Care was made to care, Don't Care was hung, Don't Care was put in a pot and boiled 'til he was done..." Tempted, but don't! Instead, just point out that she might well care in future, but it will be Too Late.
Grace +Peace,
Bob
It would be very, very good if your mom gets her ducks in a row now. That will ensure her wishes are more likely to be carried out, and make life a little easier for you. But if she doesn't, she doesn't. It will all work out.
I imagine that when the time comes you can find her life insurance papers. If she hasn't communicated whether she wants cremation or burial, etc. then you get to decide. If she doesn't leave a will, you will inherit as next of kin. In my experience, doctors and social workers, etc. etc. will ask you to make decisions.
It will be harder and messier, but you will be able to handle it. Be grateful you don't have siblings to fight with over decisions.
We were never able to get my mother to do any planning or sign any papers. But over the years we have learned her attitudes and wishes. Her nursing home has simply asked us to designate one of us as her "primary contact" and then they asked her if that was OK. No DPOA, no medical proxy, no formal papers. Fortunately my 3 sisters and I work well together in her best interests and our 3 brothers leave us to make decisions.
So, while I have my own ducks in a row, I am not suffering because my mother didn't/doesn't.
We talked through all of these things with my mother and it's all settled, written out and ready to go. It makes for a lot less stress for sure.
Take care,
Carol
Also check to find out if the DNR is enough or is a P.O.L.S.T better, that is Physicians Order for Life Sustaining Treatment and it is much more detailed than a DNR.
Yeah, my mom is the same way. Fabulous LTC policy that dad put in place years ago and the premiums are always paid up--yet she will never be "placed". My brother (the family martyr) will keep her home forever. He is now planning the sooner than later installation of a lift in her room. So he can hoist her into the wheelchair she'll be in within another year or so. Won't let the rest of the family in on any decisions, etc....my mother doesn't think she'll last forever, just until she 106. She is also 86. My mother and MIL knew each other in HS, and I think they are trying to outdo each other, somehow. MIL is actually in good health, but mentally pretty batty, but she's always been that way. I really think my MIL will outlive my hubby and his older brother. She's that ornery. Then she's MY problem and she just absolutely hates me.
also there may be no need for a lift a Hoyer is very easy to use and requires a push of a button to lift someone from bed to a chair.