Brother was made POA little over a year ago under questionable circumstances and while it was being challenged it had not yet been replaced with a new one but paperwork said she could verbally change it/revoke at any time. She did so with her elder care advocate, doctors, and family members, self included.
he lives in another state and has not taken any interest in her care or her for that matter ( not even visiting, calling, rarely) for several years. My mother has been renting to him his home ( that mom had sold to him a few years prior to provide him a home to live in school district with his boys while going thru a bad divorce process) in another state along with my sister who helps care for her and has for the last three years. He stated last November ‘21 to me and my siblings that he wanted to put her in a nursing home and was going to start the process. I told him this wasn’t what mom wants, never has. I asked what does that mean exactly. At this time, he was not POA. Anyone will tell you I know my other better than anyone and had cared for her many years while she lived with me until my sister was kicked out of her residence in another state and moved here and they decided to become roommates. She has retired from the state of Illinois and has means to have in home care and remain in the home with her dog and that was and always has been her wishes. Never to go into a nursing home. My brother never answered that text and I found out six months later that the POA had been done. He has kept me from her for several months, knowing I would enlighten her to what was going on. When I was finally able to make contact with her and she found out what happened and what she had signed and read the texts, that’s when elder care was told by her, etc. Since then, I have been helping my sister to care for her and get her help and assistance with things that no one else has been looking out for her to do. She has been thriving as much as one can even at bed rest. Until the two weeks prior to this past Thanksgiving. I became sick and good night and possibly caused her to catch what I had or make her sick. By Thanksgiving day it seemed all right for me to go over there and by afternoon I did, and she said in the recliner in the living room most of the day watching movies ate like a horse and had a wonderful day. That was the most time she had spent in the recliner at one time and within a day or two later my sister said she noticed a place that it started on her back. This developed into a pressure sore. well, she has an air mattress and all the things, it was one of those situation swear he just sat too long in the wrong type of chair, and it just did not come to anyone’s mind the situation. The doctor was called, home health was attempted to be brought in. Time passed no help was given attempts were made, and trying to address the wounds when they took a turn for the worse. She was put into the hospital, are called to do so in order to get the help needed. While there palliative care came in and recommended, sitting her home with hospice. This was based upon malnourishment, needing people to care for her needs, and being bedbound, and the pressure sores. She was 2 1/2 days in a local ER waiting for transfer where they overfilled her with fluids was not giving her nourishment. She was exhausted, tired and worn out. I really wasn’t speaking much to anyone. Basically they took a snapshot and made a decision. This was not her regular doctor. This was not her regular hospital and all other documentation. Well at that hospital showed vitals were excellent progress was made she was responsive, etc. being stunned, that hospice was being recommended, she has four children, and we had a discussion That did not go well as family members were split. The brother that had the POA was still throwing the nursing home term out and others including myself wanting reassurance that that would not be an option. Hospice said they needed three (cont’d)
- how old is your Mom?
- what state does she reside in?
- where is she currently living (receiving care when not in hospice or hospital)?
- does she have a diagnosis of memory or cognitive impairment?
- does she have any other medical/health problems besides the malnourishment and pressure sores?
- who is currently her legal guardian: is it the state? Or does brother still have active PoA?
- what is the specific question you wish to ask... is it to find out what your rights are for visiting your Mom?
I have four siblings to be in agreement to proceed. Things came to a halt. Meanwhile, after ma, mom got home she was in good spirits thriving everything was normal, and it seemed like the hospice thing was premature, especially based upon what they were saying. I reached out to her primary caregiver, and expressed what I am writing and said, at this point I would rather pursue her healing and care and not hospice at this time, because that can be brought in Later, if need be. That is what has been going on since my brother in the other state has been though trying to still push the hospice and trying to dictate and delegate what we are supposed to do like we are his worker bees or this is some kind of a coup or take over. We have continued to take care of her here, and she has been thriving even until this past week up until Saturday. She her most recent visit from home health. He came in on Saturday with a suitcase in a cot, and said he was moving in. With him he brought in paperwork stating he was now her guardian. My mother has not been asked. She has not been told what is going on. Every time my brother comes around she shuts down and has anxiety. Also when she goes to the hospital because she fears something is going to be used to put her in a nursing home and he represents that she has shut down will not drink, will not eat. It is day two. She is not drinking. Her breathing is become labored. It is affecting her greatly. He has restricted me from the home. telling me I cannot come on his property. There is no legal action banning me so I am seeking advisement and an attorney to get visitation but time is ticking. He has called in hospice. My sister is still in the home and trying to care for her since she has quit drinking her vitals have become erratic other signs that so she needs care immediately she called 911 and my brother refused the ambulance. He is running and basing all this on an excerpt from that doctors report from early on disregarding the progress, and the notes of the doctor sent. I’m working feverishly with the doctors and trying to get the paperwork and everything to back the progress up. My concern is her physical well-being, the time isn’t moving rapidly and at 86 years old she doesn’t have it. She would rather take herself out and then go into a nursing home. I don’t understand how if someone can show that someone is thriving and improving that they can come in with a non-recent excerpt and override and get this done and take away my rights to see my mother, especially if you’re going to basically accelerate or put her to death and not allow me to see her. You’re taking away her rights in mine and the doors closing quickly. i’m praying for guidance and peace and I’m so scared. If anyone would have any suggestion on something that can be done or even any encouragement, it is appreciated.
Your mom would have been appointed a guardian ad litem and she would have had legal representation.
her ad listen that was assigned was a friend of my uncles who is in co hurts with my brother as well as the attorney of the board where I work.
There are a lot of political strings being pulled here and unfortunately my brothers wife ( who does not care for my mother ) is also a lawyer and worked for an elder care atty in this area years ago. The deck is stacked and the game they are playing is seemingly in their favor. I’m in such disbelief it’s this easily done.
Your Mom is 86-yrs old, is living in the state of Illinois in the home of one of her adult children. The PoA (your brother) has now moved in and seeking to get hospice set up for her.
If your brother is the only name that appears in the PoA document, then I don't know why there needs to be agreement from all 4 siblings for any of her care to move forward? If this is something your Mom expressed only verbally, then I don't think this would hold up in court (but IL law may be different from other states). It is causing all sorts of discord and not helping your Mom's situation.
The fear of going into a good facility is, IMHO, completely blown out of proportion and is probably based on memories of terrible nursing homes of the past. Today's facilities are often amazing nice and many provide outstanding care, even when residents are on Medicaid, like my own MIL. So, I'm speaking out of personal experience.
FYI, my MIL was put on hospice when she got covid and after 4 weeks she fully recovered and is doing just great now. No longer on hospice, back in her regular room in LTC enjoying the social interaction with the staff and others, going to activities and events, getting all the medical attention she needs. Just saying that facility care is not the end of the world and your Mom may benefit from it.
If your brother's PoA is now legally activated, this must mean your Mother has a diagnosis of memory/cognitive incapacity to manage her own affairs. If you think your brother got the PoA in an illegal way, then you will need to prove this in court, and your Mother may then need to be brought before a judge to prove this one way or another. You may need to pursue guardianship for your Mother but if the judge sees a bunch or irrational in-fighting in your family, the judge may decide to assign a neutral party as her guardian. It happens. So think long and hard as you struggle against your brother rather than fighting him.
Consider a court-appointed family mediator to work out a solution that is in your Mom's best interests and is not onerous to your brother who is the legal PoA (as far as is known).
First, Mom has to assign POA. That should have been the sibling caring for her, not a son who lives states away. Yes, you can download forms and have Mom sign but u also need a witness/s and notary. Best way is thru a lawyer. How did brother get Mom to sign off on anything states away.
Guardianship has to be done in the County she lives in. She also needs to be made aware, by letter, that there are proceedings. She then goes before a Judge and pleads her case. If Mom is competent to make informed decisions and shows she is getting care needed, then guardianship will not be granted. Her other children can contest it to. Your brother would have had to have documentation from doctors saying Mom was not competent to make her own decisions and and wasn't getting care needed. You need to ask brother what court signed off he was guardian. You may need a lawyer of your own to dispute it. To see if gusrdianship is on the up and up. If so, I would then say Mom had no notice of it and was not there to defend herself.
The bed sore. Doctors do not advise Hospice unless they feel its needed. They are really not there that much. But a nurse well versed in woundcare should be there. Should be checking that wound regularly. Bed sores arecserious. You are getting someone to bathe Mom. The access to equipment. A Nurse checking in.
If Mom is competent and brother is upsetting her, she can ask him to leave. Guardian or not he does not have to live with her. I would also like to see the papers making him guardian. Would like to see where a Judge signed off and in what court. Mom had a legal right to be at the hearing and her other children with her to contest. He also needed a lawyer. If he thinks POA means guardian, he is wrong. Again, Mom if is competent then she can revoke a POA.
Does Mom have money that brother feels he is entitled to. Guardianship does not give him the right to spend it anyother way then on Mom. He had to report yearly to the state and show that her money is going towards her care.
I think you need a lawyer to represent Mom and demanding that brother provide proof of guardianship. He can research and if legit claim that Mom was not informed of a court date and was not represented. If Mom does not want brother there, lawyer can request that he leave.
Does your Mom have Dementia? Does brother feel she is not getting the care she needs? I guess u have a lawyer now so brother is camping out because his guardianship is kind if in hold?
i saw paperwork, brother had attorney who was the one they paid for to have the poa drawn up for my mom to sign in Nov ‘21. It shows my moms name and an ad litem assigned to her which is the person I said who is one of my uncles best friends and has not been to the house to see my other, etc., but also the uncle who was on poa paperwork that my mom found out after the fact and had no idea and was “pissed” and told her elder care advocate so and that she had no idea of it. She had not even been left a legal copy of the poa and my sister had to request it and later realized was given one original and one copy ( property original and health non original ). Also, just an interesting note, there was attorneys business cards places all over the house ( just recently found one in fact ). My sister said she sure dint put them out anywhere and my mom has been bed ridden…
Ma doesn’t have demitasse nor been diagnosed. Has exceptional long term memory. Short term at times depends on what it’s in regards to and that’s pretty recent. Some contributing factors are when there’s lack of socialization
/ stimulation, just waking up, stress , such as when my brother is around or she goes to doc appts
Financially, brother says we can request a report regarding man’s finances quarterly. He is allllowed to take a salary and the ad litem gets paid also. He charges my ma rent and has for three years but does not claim income . He’s a CPA.
You need to get an emergency hearing about the guardianship, that sounds fishy at best.
By law your mom has the legal right to be represented and heard to have her autonomy removed legally.
Best of luck getting to spend time with your mom.
We cannot possible judge the situation from where we sit in our homes around the world.
If you wish to go to court in a guardianship know that it will cost you a minimum of 10,000. Know that your brother who is appointed POA for your mom will almost certainly win the case, OR that guardianship will be taken from you both and given to the state.
If you suspect mismanagement of your mother's estate, then you can see the DA, an attorney, or call APS. That is the limit of what you can do. Your brother has offered a quarterly accounting. Don't know about your state, but in California he would not have to give you ANYTHING whatsoever.
I don't see any specific questions for us throughout this, but it was long, and I may have missed them.
Nothing is so upsetting at end of life, for a senior, than divided siblings at war. I feel dreadful for your Mom. Normally I wish our OPs good luck. In this case I wish it for this mother.
If you wish to see your Mother I am afraid you are at this point going to have to tell people that you will NOT mention any of these disruptive issues to her, that you wish only to visit and give her your love, that you will gladly be accompanied during the visit and will leave when requested. If you love your Mom as much as you say that is what you will do FOR HER now, as that is the only thing now to matter in all of this. I am 80. I put myself in your Mom's place. I would long for hospice and being eased out of this, in all truth.
As I said, and as a retired RN, Hospice will not be put in place because there's a son wanting his Mom to die. That is utter nonsense.
In short, so far, I am siding with the brother. And as I said, no one can quite honestly know what in the world is going on/has gone on in all of this.
Want to know what is happening with Mom? Your brother is now the lion at the gate. Throw yourself on his mercy. Beg to see your Mom even if only for minutes, and even if accompanied. As how you can help in these last days. That is you best chance, imho of seeing your Mom.
But you will do as you think best.
It is not euthanasia.
You say in responses that your brother who is POA is not living near your Mom? Is that correct?
Who DOES live with your Mom?
And who is forbidding you from seeing your Mom currently, as it cannot be the brother if he is nowhere in sight (unless your Mom is in care currently and the facility has agreed to forbid your seeing her).
I can only suggest you see an elder law attorney.
I can only suggest you ask that attorney to intervene so that you are able to visit your Mom accompanied, agreeing to discuss with her nothing but your love for her and your support.
I suspect no one here can make head or tails of this very complicated situation; I know that I sure can't. You have our sympathy, but that doesn't help your situation.
After enlisting the help of APS, an elder law attorney, if there is no answer for you regarding all this, then I doubt there is help for you.
As I said, no one is put on hospice by some POA residing states away. Doctors order hospice. And hospice interviews all patients able to communicate with them, or the doctors and family member appointed by the patient him or herself or the powers of the courts and states. And if a patient improves on hospice (and many DO) then no one is happier than Hospice itself to pack their bags and leave the premises.
That's the simple truth. You can label it "snark" or anything else that you want to. But when someone tells me they are forbidden to see their own mother, then I want the reasons, because there are few siblings in this world evil enough to forbid the visit of a brother of theirs, a son of their mother, to visit the mother in her days on hospice. It doesn't make sense. There is a reason. There are things missing in the story. And that is my belief. Either there has been a whole lot of water flowing under the bridge over time here or your brother is about the first person around here to be truly evil enough to forbid a son bidding his Mom a loving goodbye.
As I said, I would throw myself upon the mercy of my brother. I would beg to see my mother. I would mention NONE of this to my mother and I would fill her mind with loving thoughts and support. I would agree to, indeed ASK TO, be accompanied on my visits with people who can insure I stick to my promises. And I would do all this on my knees if necessary to see my Mom. It's the only thing I can suggest to you.
If you know the hospice involved you may want to reach out, as your Mom's son, to the clergy and social workers there to mediate an accompanied visit with your mother. I believe they would encourage your brother to allow that.
Where is your mother now? Is she living alone? Who is taking care of her?
Hope this is helpful.
Some of the players in this dilemma will have to provide documents. State your wishes with the attorney if you hired that person or state your wishes through Probate.
However you also state she is in Hospice or being considered. Her needed care may preceed going back home. If you do not want to be her guardian and brother id deemed not fit then the judge will assign her a guardian. That means the decision of hospice or housing will be decided by an outsider.
It is interesting that Sister is taking care of Mom yet she has seemed to give guardianship to a son at war with another son. When the attorney says to you that you should make the decision about countering for guardianship do check in with him about costs. He will likely give you his hourly fee without giving you the facts that your Mom, your bro and you will have an attorney, and if you lose you might be paying for all of them. Just get all the facts, and then make your decision.
As I said, for me, I am on my knees begging to see my Mom accompanied by Sis or brother.
Good luck. And I sure hope you will update us. And I surely do hope that someone in all this mess is talking to Mom about what SHE might want.
Hopefully some of this brings more clarity to the situation. Some of it I don’t even understand myself. I can’t say why my brother is doing what he is no more than I could my sister. We were all raised under the same roof. We were all taught to love and care and we’re family. I don’t know what’s happened.
Sorry if this added to confusion of matter.
It seems to me it would be better to accept that now.
You tell us in your latest update that your sister was "thrown out of her house" and your mom moved out from your house to live with your sister --likely because she saw the sister as needing her (moms are like that). Whether it is a mistake, "co-dependency" as you label it, or not, it was your mom's choice.
If you go to court do know that your mom will be appointed an attorney. She will make her choices of guardianship known to the court. And she will be listened to EVEN IF she is already diagnosed with dementia, and that's as it should be.
As you update us more and more we learn more that this is a very complicated ongoing family trauma--one we could never in a number of years comb out, and one we are getting one side of. And as I said before,(whether with grace or not, who knows) a whole lot of water under the bridge.
So again, I can only again caution you, in a court battle the money hemorrhages out. Take great care with that for your own sake. And in court, with two brothers and a sister at war over the fragility of one mom, the judge will often remove guardianship from all involved and assign guardianship to the state with a court appointed fiduciary. When you get to court I would refrain from labeling others with such terms as co-dependency, and etc. because judges frown upon people diagnosing others. I have found most completely devoid of grace (and that's the truth).
Whether you know it or not I wish your ENTIRE FAMILY the very best. It is a dreadful thing (and in fact a pet peeve of mine) when children war over the still living bodies of their parents, causing great pain to said parents when they are at their most helpless. It puts me in mind of those who came to the dying Catherine of Siena while she still breathed to collect relics from her still living body--a fingernail here, a drop of blood there.
Geaton posted the following some time ago:
APFMnet.org (academy of professional family mediation)
ACRnet.org (Assn for conflict resolution)
Have POA handle everything listed in the POA. Have at your elderly parent’s expense mail all mail to him, handle all bills, have your parents taxes done. LY it on as he should be doing.
Don’t say you are doing this. Just do it. He’s POA after all. Or mail COD so he has to pay. be unable to correctly handle matters from another State. Forward all medical and online stuff also. So not state your opinion. Do not offer help. He’s the POA. He’s 100% responsible from the date the POA became effective. Look that date up. Some are immediately, others based on date two doctors certify that parent is unable to care for him or her. Get hours of that medical certification from local doctor.
if mother is still able to recognize her family, know her assets (like a house or jewelry) know consequences of her own estate planning decisions like a POA or will, have doctor sign a document saying mother is still able to handle own legal affairs and knows family and consequences of her decisions. Then have her sign with a notary a new Durable Power of Attorney to you and problem solved.
Or depending on working if. Urgent POA in your State, have her sign a new POA if she has not yet been certified by two doctors to be unable to handle her affairs. This two doctor requirment is in CA. So do a search for the Probate Code or Family Code laws online to see what your State’s requirements Rw to be deemed unable to care for oneself.
say as little as possible to your out od Atate relative. There is no legal requirment for you to tell him anything about your mother. No law says you must tell him and out of state relative who cannot practically help. But he also as current POA has no legal requirment to tell you anything he is doing either. He is to help your mother not you by law as a POA.
when you let him have to handle taxes, bills, he will be over whelmed and have to ask you to help him. That’s up to you. It’s his job as he accepted it by signing POA not yours. Don’t let him make you into his assistant bc he can charge the estate for his work and expenses as POA.
that’s a lot of valuable info to digest. First and foremost have mother sign new POA with effective date of immediately and to also manage her mail and online access and accounts as well as time she can be contacted by others and for how long so as not to exhaust her. Add these into the Durable POA.
If she is already been carried by doctors as unable to care for herself, it’s all over. He’s the POA so send him all the work for him to do and remind him to get her taxes done. He is permitted to designate you as a co-POA if she’s certified incompetent by two doctors. That’s up to you.
just enjoy your mothers company now. Have him hire maid and have him have groceries delivered, , hire meal delivery like meals on wheels and hire on home companion for her when you cannot be around. That’s his job. Don’t tell him prices unless he asks.
Good luck to you.