Need 2nd opinions. Should I put my loved one in a care home?

Well, seems yes is the short answer.

I see the common sense answers based on one simple fact: Dad can no longer live independantly: A) Move into care. B) Run his own staff of home helpers. Now with Dementia, that will be rule out B. Leaving only A.

"he doesn't want to go to a care home..".

Not many do 🙄. Now the hard thing is 'putting' someone where they don't want to go..

This will take the legal authority. Start on this if not already.

Keep talking to Dad though, dementia or not, the more he can have his preferences met for his own living & life based on his own values the better.

((((Hugs))))) and welcome.

There are just TWO things you need to focus on right now. Your own health and your kids.

Your dad's care is NOT your responsibility.

So he is infuriated.

So what?

My dear, if you had a hemorrhagic stroke less than a year ago, you should not be caring for anyone but yourself and your own family.

It sounds like your father lives on his own. You are at a place where you need to let him sink or swim or he is going to take you down with him. Your young family comes first.

If he has dementia, don’t expect him to notice or even care that you are overloaded. Empathy is often lost. YOU have to set boundaries. Not in the sense that you need a confrontation or big conversation. You have already told him his options. Now, you just back off from the help you have been providing. If he is struggling, you call APS. It doesn’t matter if he gets mad. You can’t let his anger dominate your decision-making. Especially, when you are in such a delicate state.

Those types of strokes are incredibly difficult to come back from and a pregnancy will put stress on your body.

Please take care of yourself. This is one situation where you need to just get out from under the burden before you get crushed, and you need to get out now.

There is no guilt here. Just heal.

Gosh, why is this even a question?

This is tricky because your father is only 63, and you give the impression that you are living in his house. It is quite hard to get someone so young diagnosed as not legally competent to make decisions like continuing to live in their own home – harder than getting a dementia diagnosis. You may not be able to ‘put him in a care home’.

The alternatives may be to decide what you want to do yourself.
a) If you have a toddler and a new baby coming, moving out and getting a job may not be financially possible. But it’s the obvious best solution. Live your own life!
b) It doesn’t sound as though your fiance is working (and presumably the fiance is the father of at least the new baby). If you move out, could he work and support you and the children? If not, why not?
c) Can you do a deal with F? You write a list of ‘essentials’, and he has to agree if you are going to stay living with him. If he would find it hard to cope on his own, and he knows it, he may be willing to compromise. But you will need to be convincing about moving out if he won’t compromise.
d) Have you considered the possibility that he might actually like you all to move out? He doesn't appear to like BF, small children aren't everyone's cup of tea, and he doesn't want to do what he is told.
e) One thing that isn’t worth worrying about is ‘F being infuriated if you call APS’. Very few people rush towards institutional care, of course he won’t like it. However while you are still there and caring for him, APS is likely to say that his situation is OK.
f) You may do better calling the police, if you are on the level about ‘He will literally try to fight me over'...taking a shower and changing clothes soiled with feces. The police probably won’t charge him with anything, but they may have more power to force other solutions.

APS or a counselor (or the police) may help you talk all this through. It’s more difficult than you simply making a decision that he ought to be in care.

Your dad is fecally incontinent and getting physical. You just had an aneurysm and now you're pregnant. He is not only an active danger to himself, but to you, your baby, your other child and your relationship.

I'm assuming you're in his house. In that case, tell him you're leaving if he doesn't get his own help in immediately while you physically cannot help. If it's his house and not yours, it's just wrong to make him be the one to move out immediately while y'all get to stay.

Nikki, thank you for your answer to my post. I think that the situation still needs checking down the list I set out. Your father and his preferences aren’t in control here. You need to work out what is your bottom line, and have some credible alternative options for yourself and your little personal family. Father’s choices are NOT your ORDERS, and if he won’t listen to reason that is clearly in his best interests, then his choices are not what you need to follow. No matter how dangerours the choices he makes, you aren’t responsible if you have done all you can.

I understand how difficult this is for a nice well-meaning person like you, but you don’t have a magic wand. Go down the list again, and pick the ‘least worst’. Love Margaret

Nikki, when you move out, your Dad will be forced to use alternate help. *Non-you* help. That's how it works.

You decide how much you can help. (With moving home, kids & new bub on the way, I'd say a weekly phone call is about it!)

Either he will give in quick & accept a home service. Or he will give in slow - via APS, EMS or some crises or another.

My relative was a slow learner.. still refused home help services after being unable to shower or get up after a fall. But once I stopped attending - HAD to give in..

One thing I'd like to point out. I wouldn't sign up for anything like being his guardian, etc. at this point. You have a young family and a health issue yourself. Every....single....time....there is an issue with dad, you will be expected to deal with it. If he gets boot from a facility....you have to find a new one. And you have to make him move, and you, and you , and you. We have had a couple of instances in our family where an appointed guardian worked so much better. They were able to access facilities and services much, much quicker than we could have managed as a family.

I can't understand why you would even consider continuing to take care of your father. Move out, and move on!

Realize that those people who are telling you that he cannot live alone do not care one bit about you. They just want someone else to be responsible so that they don't have to be.

In MN where I live, I filled out the Medicaid form for my stepFIL even though I wasn't his PoA. Contact social services and ask if you fill out the form and your father refuses to sign it, if anyone can sign it considering he has a diagnosis of dementia.

You're due to move in a few weeks. Your dad has not made any preparation for his aging decline, so he has no assigned PoA. Guardianship is an expensive court process ($10K is what I've read on this forum). You recently had an aneurism and are now pregnant and have another child and a fiancee. You need to stop being the solution to this situation (from family pressure) because it is unsustainable. Your own health and family have priority. Your dad's issues will only become worse -- and then when the new baby comes....?

Before you move out you can report your dad as a vulnerable adult to social services and get him on their radar. Eventually the county will acquire guardianship of him and place him in a facility. Even if you did miraculously afford and win guardianship, remember that Medi-Cal doesn't pay for Memory Care. This can cost $$thousand$$ of dollars every month. Does he have this kind of money to pay for many years? He's only in his early 60's right now.

"The California Medicaid program, Medi-Cal, does not pay room and board costs in RCFEs. However, the state offers the Assisted Living Waiver program to help eligible individuals cover the cost of certain memory-care related services received in RCFEs that have been approved as participating providers."

Source: https://www.memorycare.com/memory-care-in-california

If he's in a good facility he will get the care and protection he needs, social exposure and opportunities for activities. If he's stuck in a home with you, he is basically cloistered. He won't know he is benefiting from "family" as he becomes less and less able to remember who they are or what they do on his behalf. If he can be transitioned into a local place, you will be able to visit him as often as you wish.

I'm so sorry for your troubles this past year but please relinquish control so that other realistic solutions can be pursued. May you receive wisdom and peace in your heart.

Give loving care to yourself, your new baby, your little son, your fiancée, and your father, in exactly that order.

If your father is suffering from diminished cognition, you must assume responsibility if you choose to do so, to receive safe, humane care that can be provided without sapping the finances of your own growing family.

How “infuriated” he will be is sad, it not part of the burdens of your decision making. His fury will result in part from his dementia, and NOT any unkindness or selfishness on your part.

If you can find a residence near you that he can afford, great! You will be able to visit at some point, and babies are ALWAYS welcome visitors for dah in-dash out visits. But for sure, FIND A RESIDENCE for him (and for you).

Blessings to you, and may you have a safe and low stressed Delivery!

The decision to put your father into a care facility years ago would not have been wrong. It is not wrong today if you have him placed in one. You have serious health issues of your own to deal with and a family on top of it. There's enough on your plate already and you should not also try to be his caregiver even under the best circumstances. The fact that he belittles you and your child and also picks arguments is reason enough right there to put him in a facility. I've done elder homecare for many years and have dropped clients from my service when the verbal abuse goes too far. No one has to deal with that.
Normally I would tell a person to try homecare for their elders before facility placement. In your case I'm not even going to suggest it because you don't need the responsibility of managing the homecare help along with everything else you're dealing with.
In your case APS will be a positive thing. They will have your father declared legally incompetent if he hasn't already been and will have him placed to a care facility.
What I would suggest you do before calling APS is ask the police in the town your father lives in to do a wellness check on him. The cops will not say that you asked them to go there if you tell them not to. They will call APS so you won't have to. Then APS will handle getting him placement in a care facility. They will also handle transportation. Your father sounds like he will be a hostile transfer when the day comes to move him. They will take care of that. Talk to the police as a first step.
He will be angry about it and will probably blame you for a while. The facility he gets placed in will probably tell you not to even visit for a couple of weeks while he gets acclimated to a different lifestyle.

Nikki, for your own health you need to walk away.

He is one that will do it his way until a crisis and no choices left, before anything will change. I think there are lots of us here that have a parent in that group, some have 2.

You, on the other hand, have an obligation to your children. What will happen to them if his "stubbornness" should stress you right into another stroke?

I got lucky, I have 2 parents that were in the "Everything is going to be my way, until a crisis and no choices!" I can honestly say that dealing with my dad has prepared me to better deal with my mom. As hard is it is to let go, knowing it is a train crash heading your way, the only thing that you can really do is move far enough away from the train, the tracks and the fallout area to be available to help advocate when the appropriate resources show up to scrape them up. I was blessed in the fact that my dads train wreck was mild compared to what my moms will be, yet, dealing with him I ended up in a cardiologist office because I thought I was having small heart attacks, nope, just stress. That's when I knew things were changing on my part, I wasn't going to leave my family because he was going to do it his way with me propping it up. You are in greater danger of not being there for your family because of your health.

Prepare yourself for his anger and his vile reaction to you standing up for you and your family, because it will get worse before it gets better. Thicken your skin and be prepared to hear how awful (putting it nicely) that you, your kids, your fiance are, from anybody that will listen to him. This is partly the disease and partly the my way personality, it IS NOT YOU, so don't give it any head space. When people tell me things my folks said about me, I still don't understand why people enjoy telling hurtful things but, I sigh and very resigned say, "I know." Then I promptly forget it. Even "professionals" will try using this tactic to make you feel responsible to step in, ignore it, no matter the source.

From the sound of your situation, you are not going to be able to help your dad. He is going to stay at home, sitting in his own waste, doing it his way, until the state intervenes. You have to prepare yourself for this. It will be the hardest thing you have ever done with him but, it is the surest way for him to get the help he needs.

Has anyone explained to him that he won't lose the house to medi-cal? Of course, the ideal solution is for him to sell it and pay for his new residence but, he will be dead before they do MERP. He is more likely to lose it to taxes if he goes into a facility, because he won't be able to pay for anything, that's another reason to do a sale, why let the state benefit from a tax sale when having the cash to pay gives him choices.

That is a lot of words to say, "You need to take care of you, so that your children have their mom to take care of them, regardless of what your dad wants, a healthy you is the only way to move forward."

You got this, you can definitely be strong enough to do the hard things required for him to get the help he needs.

Congratulations on your daughter and continued recovery!

Tell him he obviously can't stay by himself while you're gone. Therapeutically fib by implying you're going to a place near the hospital so for now, he has to do the same. Hell, let him think you're thinking of moving back if he just tries a month of respite care while you have your baby.

Once he's there and you're out, then tell him the "authorities" have told you he must be in a safer place like the respite until he gets "better." If the house gets sold under family and it's all spent on the elder's care, the elder has more choices than if authorities have to get involved, right?

Managed care homes are there for precisely the reason you find yourself in: to place a loved one who needs WAY more care than you're capable of giving him.

It's sad for the stigmas associated with managed care which prevents many people from doing what's NECESSARY for their loved one's care. If you were to die (God forbid) due to another stroke combined with the horrendous stress dad is placing upon you due to his demented behavior, what then?

Please start thinking logically and not entirely emotionally where you're somehow The Big Bad Wolf for placing dad where he can be cared for properly; by teams of people working 24/7 365 to get the job done. You can become a visitor then instead of an unpaid and abused slave to someone who cannot even appreciate your sacrifices.

Best of luck