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DeeAnna, Yes!! I've both seen this several times as well as been subjected to it myself.
"person, helping them with their ADLs (bathing, dressing, toileting, cooking food, etc.) is LESS LIKELY to receive any monetary "reward" for their time. It seems that the elderly or dementia person sees their caregiver, not as their family member, but as a "servant" who works for them and thus, does not "deserve" any monetary reward for what they are doing."
Why is that?? I would be soooo appreciative if someone gave of their time to help me without pay. Wth?? The schmoozey grifters seem like they're more welcome than the hard working family member slaving away in background. It's an icky side of human nature. When I try and talk to my dad he just wants to talk about what he eats and his bms. If I try and get him onto something else he's bored. He seems to prefer obvious over the top flattery and gossip. Arggh. And I detest both :(
@Jasmina def agree with you! Had to deal with several "care givers" that weasled their way into will?! What they had to offer was taking my dad to places that were wildly inappropriate (ie seedy massage parlors or to the beach) I had to wonder if they were hoping for an accident to happen as he's very frail and exhausts after two hours. One ended up in prison (for crime unrelated to my dad) another revealed herself to be professional "ambulance chaser". There were others, care givers who wanted to take his car, or sell him scams or sketchy inv. All used the same M.O. pretending like he was the most interesting person on the planet, schmoozing him up, flirting with him, and getting very intimate about his personal business. The next thing was "I'm his second daughter or second son" , then came the hard sell. It is sooooo depressing to have to deal with this. I might also add I had to deal with overt hostility from them. Others were over the top nice, but scheming like hell behind my back. I'm embarrassed to say it took me awhile to catch on. :( . I actually thought some of them were real friends.
Bottom line folks, most parents are going to need every dime. Protect your inheritance from grifters by all means, but really don't expect anything. If the $$ are being spent on his care and he lives for any protracted length of time (and many seniors do) then he will likely need every bit of it. My dad was expected to pass eight years ago and although he's limited with mobility and also cannot go out as much, he very much is plugging along and it's conceivable he could last another 10 years. Jokes on the grifters :/
The other worry for me was how these sudden friendships involved taking him places that he had no business going. Places he's never wanted to visit on his own or places that put him at extreme risk for a fall or for sun stroke or exhaustion or in even possibly robbery.
Again it was as if the hope was to get into will and then hasten his demise. :( I hope I'm wrong on that one, but there's not doubt that some people are scary around money.
This caretaker has known the elderly person 1 year? No, no and NO WAY. I smell a rat. This person's job was to take care of the elderly person. They were paid for their service. PAID. It is a job, not the lottery. They weedled their way in. They took advantage of a person with dementia. I would get in touch with the lawyer and police. Not 911. I would wonder if they have done this to anyone else. I wouldn't be surprised if they had. Does the person with dementia know the lawyers number to make an appt to change the will? Hmmm. The number is on speed dial is it? I'm blunt and I make no apologies. I dont care if the person is a saint. This person is not a long standing family friend, relative etc. Look this up online, this is more common than you think.
Is this your Dad that we are talking about? So I guess that he lives alone. How often do you and your family or siblings visit your Dad? Most likely he is lonely and one way to "show your thanks" to someone who is willing to spend time with a lonely old man is give that person money.
My cousins "sweet-talked" my grandmother and her brother (who were in their late-80 into early-90's) and each time they visited Grandma & Uncle Joe, they received money. And if my cousins asked for a car or someplace to live, they got a older model used car or a mobile home trailer or a house with reduced rent. HOWEVER, when I moved back to the same state and my brother had two kids and started to visit Grandma, she changed her opinion of my cousins and started giving money to me and my brother and she made sure that her will favored us.
What I am saying is that the person who spends time visiting-talking with, having fun with, and playing games with, is sometimes MORE LIKELY to receive some monetary "reward" for their time. Unfortunately, I have noticed (and other people on this forum have mentioned this), the person who is taking care of the person, helping them with their ADLs (bathing, dressing, toileting, cooking food, etc.) is LESS LIKELY to receive any monetary "reward" for their time. It seems that the elderly or dementia person sees their caregiver, not as their family member, but as a "servant" who works for them and thus, does not "deserve" any monetary reward for what they are doing. UNFAIR? YES! But it happens!!!
We have talked about the will and I know that our suggestions and comments haven't been too positive. Unfortunately, that is the way wills work.
Is there another problem that you want us to give suggestions about? If you just what to vent, then "VENT" or "Type, type, type", we want to support in whatever way we can. God Bless.
This is a very hard format to reply to :( No she’s not w a registered agency But 2 other caregivers r They r on the up & up Wish they were the full time care giver cuz they do the bulk of the work She’s part time She sets her own hours & comes & goes based on her children’s schedule But they aren’t young I get it If I was in my 90s I’d probably want a cute young thing around too! Yes it’s his $ Don’t expect any Just think it would b nice if any $ is left to give it to family members who have been there his entire live versus a few years But it’s his $ Sad tho a few years ago he had moments he couldn’t remember his son That’s how far the dementia has progressed :(
Hlhensley123, even with dementia the early years one is still able to make choices.
My boss' wife was diagnosed with Alzheimer's and she continued working for 3 to 4 years.
You were comparing your income with that of a caregiver. Does the caregiver work for an agency or is she an independent contractor? What do you consider a hefty salary? If the caregiver works for an Agency she doesn't get the income that the Agency bills your Dad. Chances are she gets minimum wage or a tad bit more depending on her experience.
Usually school teachers who work for local governments get health insurance. A caregiver does not, the caregiver has to buy their insurance on the open market. Some school teachers have a 401(k) with matching funds or half funds. A caregiver does not. You have vacation days and sick days with pay. A caregiver does not. Bet the school has a life insurance policy on their teachers, a caregiver does not. So right there, you add up the net worth of your bonuses you definitely would make much more in income.
How many hours does the caregiver work each day? Usually State laws dictate how many hours are allowed, thus the reason for the extra caregivers. My Dad had 3 full-time caregivers each day, each working 8 hours per day.
HLhensley, Oops! A will made by someone with dementia would probably be easily challenged. If you have an older will, hang on to it if you think that might be the case. However, dementia might not prevent the validity of the will if the attorney who prepared it observed that Dad understood what he was doing and was not being unduly influenced by the care-giver. You might want to see an Estate attorney with your concerns now.
Sounds fishy, I'd contact an elder care attorney for more advice.
As for parents leaving money for their kids. I'm already planning on how I can save to leave money for my son. Of course parents should try and leave money for their children. I personally consider it a duty. But that's just me I guess.
Should a parent forgo care or reasonable comfort during their lifetime to do this? Of course not!! There should be a balance. But parents who expect their kids to put their lives on hold to care for them and then give away their money to random others or a scheming sibling? I'm sorry, but that's just grossly unfair. As well as seniors who live the high life and then plunder the savings plus time and energy of their adult children with no regard for their children's or grandchildren's future. I find those bumper stickers that read "spending my children's inheritance" off putting. Being able to leave a legacy is an honor.
I doubt very much in my case whether there will be much of an inheritance. My focus is to make sure my dad had the care he needs with enough left over so he can have some fun. And to make sure that I'm taken care of as well, meaning I'm not spending down my own retirement to fund his.
I've have to deal with a variety of grifter types trying to take his assets. It's really a problem with some folks. Consulting with an experienced elder care attorney is the only way to go. Good luck!!
She makes a hefty Salary already More than I made full time as a school teacher She’s not full time 2 other care givers had to b hired because she wasn’t able to provide enough care I’m surprised what she can do w her “bad back”
HIh123, Just my 2 cents. I think that if the person is of sound mind and all siblings in the will have been informed and are aware that everything is on the "up & up", then it could just be a nice gesture. However, would be a good idea to review all legal documents.
I chose to not to respond to this post before but I have to laugh every Time I see this post. Your parents are under no obligation to leave you anything. It bothers me that parents feel they should leave something to their children. Parents should enjoy their money and spend it doing things and buying things FOR THEM. It makes me so mad that my Dad chose not to sell off property when he could. That money could have been spent on remodeling the house. A house that is now falling down from neglected. No, he wanted to save it for his kids. We didn't want it and then the wetlands law came in. Now I can't sell the property.
It boggles my mind when I read on this forum, where POAs feel they can sell a house and take money from their parents with no guilt. Its not their house or their money. That one person does all the caring but those that did nothing are right there when parent dies wanting their share. They talk about the Mellinium kids but Baby Boomers are not doing bad.
My brothers could have done more when it came to my Mom. But, they have allowed me to make the decisions regarding her care without complaint. Actually, I have gotten thank you's. Yes, I kept them in the loop and appreciated their input. But none of us felt we were entitled to any of her money. We actually told her to spend it,
A will is a personal thing. A person can leave his money to his cat. As long as a child is mentioned in the will, the inheritance can be a $1, the will cannot be contested. Our parents owe us nothing.
Most don't fully understand how and when a Will operates and under what circumstances. A Will only governs those assets subject to probate. If assets pass to another by Operation of Law (such as jointly held) or by Beneficiary (such as life insurance or IRA's where the beneficiary is not the estate of the deceased) THEY ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE PROBATE PROCESS AND THEREFORE NOT SUBJECT TO THE TERMS OF A WILL. The administration of a Will upon one's death is conducted by the Probate Court that has jurisdiction. The process is time consuming and usually relatively expensive. As a result, most chose to do some form of Estate Planning that avoids the probate process. This planning is accomplished, as suggested above, by holding assets jointly with the intended beneficiary, naming Payable on Death (POD) or Transfer on Death (TOD) beneficiaries on financial accounts, naming individuals as beneficiaries on life insurance/annuity policies and IRA's, or by creating a Revocable Trust and titling assets in the name of the trust (upon death of the grantor the trust becomes "irrevocable" and assets are devised according to the terms of the trust by the trustee named in the document). There are, however, instances where one might actually prefer that their estate be subject to probate as then the administration of the estate will be supervised by a Probate Court thereby assuring assets subject to a Will are properly devised. Proper estate planning and proper titling of assets to accomplish same is a crucial if one wishes their assets to be distributed as intended. Seek proper legal advice.
Hensley & heysilky, I don't think that we are trying to be hostile, we are answering your question truthfully and sometimes the truth hurts. I am sorry if you feel that we have been hostile or mean towards you. Please forgive us.
Questions about wills are never easy to answer as we don't know what the person was thinking at the time they wrote the will.
Could you give us some more background information about the person being cared for and the non-family caregiver who is to receive 25%? It would help us better understand your situation and maybe give more appropriate answers than what we have already given. Thanks.
What do you mean by "written into will"? If you mean the actual paper the original will is on was annotated by hand with a note, that's probably not going to be enforceable if anyone disputes it. If you mean the will was properly prepared by a legitimate attorney who observed the competency of the maker who included the 25% gift, then, of course it's legal. Any competent person can leave their unencumbered assets to anyone they choose.
Hensley....I don’t know, maybe it’s just me but, you seem to have gotten several hostile answers. I’m so sorry! Maybe some of these caregivers are feeling extremely stressed & you’re getting the brunt of their emotions. Usually responders are a lot kinder in their replies so I hope you haven’t been hurt or offended. Or, maybe it’s just the topic...money. Anyway, if it’s possible, I’d suggest you talk to the owner of the will & see if it all sounds legit to you. But like others said, if competency isn’t an issue then yes, it’s be legal. Good luck!
If the patient is of reasonably sound mind and the caregiver has been loyal, kind and dedicated, family members should INSIST something be left to the caregiver.
If the patient has dementia and the will changed after a dementia diagnosis, it can be challenged.
We are missing a LOT of info here, so hard to say where this particular situation falls.
No further details yet...I know a home caregiver who worked for a quite wealthy patient (male near 100 yrs old) for ten years. She’d try to resign and he’d talk her into coming back. He definitely had an ‘old man crush’ on her. For a few years I was wondering if he’d leave her something but I don’t believe that families ever allow any interlopers to get $1 extra and would hire the barracuda lawyers to get it back.
My friend had no aims to be written in the will. She did finally quit, abruptly and she’s glad to get away from him!
Hlhensley123, with my own Dad, I wished he would have written into his Will leaving some amount to his two favorite caregivers. They both were a Godsend to him and to me. Both worked for an Agency and I know they only got around half of the hourly rate that my Dad was paying to the Agency. They both made my Dad's life so happy, and both had been with him for over a year.
Now that Probate is finally finished, I plan to write both of them checks to thank them for all their hard work and friendship with my Dad. The checks will go directly to their home address and not through the Agency. And for making my life more manageable during that time frame.
The person making the will can leave her money to whomever she pleases.
Points to check:
Was the person (the testator) of sound mind when she made the will? Is there any suggestion that the non-family caregiver applied any sort of pressure or influence? If the caregiver was employed by an agency or company, does her inclusion in the will breach any terms of her employment?
But assuming none of the answers to these questions is cause for concern, then what you have is generous acknowledgement of devoted service, and God bless both of them.
My mother's best friend left a half interest in her house to her caregiver and half to our friend's daughter. The daughter and caregiver are now close friends. The caregiver had been utterly devoted, 24/7 for a long time.
If the person writing the will is competent, then "YES", it is legal.
We need more information about your situation. Apparently you, a family member, are upset that a caregiver hired to take care of your loved one has been written into your Father's?? or Mother's?? will. How long has this person been caring for your loved one? Has the caregiver been living in the loved one's home while giving care to your loved one?
How many family members will be sharing the remaining 75%? Is there some HUGE amount of money or property to be inherited? Will that money possibly be needed in the future to pay for your loved one's care during their final days or has the loved one died and that is how you found out about the caregiver being written into the will?
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myself.
"person, helping them with their ADLs (bathing, dressing, toileting, cooking food, etc.) is LESS LIKELY to receive any monetary "reward" for their time. It seems that the elderly or dementia person sees their caregiver, not as their family member, but as a "servant" who works for them and thus, does not "deserve" any monetary reward for what they are doing."
Why is that?? I would be soooo appreciative if someone gave of their time to help
me without pay. Wth?? The schmoozey grifters seem like they're more welcome
than the hard working family member slaving away in background. It's an icky
side of human nature. When I try and talk to my dad he just wants to talk about
what he eats and his bms. If I try and get him onto something else he's bored.
He seems to prefer obvious over the top flattery and gossip. Arggh. And I detest
both :(
their way into will?! What they had to offer was taking my dad to
places that were wildly inappropriate (ie seedy massage parlors or to the beach) I had to wonder if they were hoping for an accident to happen as he's very frail and exhausts after two hours. One ended up in prison (for crime unrelated to my dad) another revealed herself to be professional "ambulance chaser". There were others, care givers who wanted to take his car, or sell him scams or sketchy inv. All used the same M.O. pretending like he was the most interesting person on the planet, schmoozing him up, flirting with him, and getting very intimate about his personal business. The next thing was "I'm his second daughter or second son" , then came the hard sell. It is sooooo depressing to have to deal with this. I might also add I had to deal with overt hostility from them. Others were over the top nice, but scheming like hell behind my back.
I'm embarrassed to say it took me awhile to catch on. :( . I actually thought some of
them were real friends.
Bottom line folks, most parents are going to need every dime. Protect your inheritance
from grifters by all means, but really don't expect anything. If the $$ are being spent
on his care and he lives for any protracted length of time (and many seniors do) then
he will likely need every bit of it. My dad was expected to pass eight years ago and
although he's limited with mobility and also cannot go out as much, he very much is
plugging along and it's conceivable he could last another 10 years. Jokes on the
grifters :/
The other worry for me was how these sudden friendships involved taking him places
that he had no business going. Places he's never wanted to visit on his own or places
that put him at extreme risk for a fall or for sun stroke or exhaustion or in even
possibly robbery.
Again it was as if the hope was to get into will and then hasten his demise. :( I hope
I'm wrong on that one, but there's not doubt that some people are scary around money.
This person's job was to take care of the elderly person. They were paid for their service. PAID. It is a job, not the lottery. They weedled their way in. They took advantage of a person with dementia.
I would get in touch with the lawyer and police. Not 911. I would wonder if they have done this to anyone else. I wouldn't be surprised if they had. Does the person with dementia know the lawyers number to make an appt to change the will? Hmmm. The number is on speed dial is it?
I'm blunt and I make no apologies. I dont care if the person is a saint. This person is not a long standing family friend, relative etc.
Look this up online, this is more common than you think.
My cousins "sweet-talked" my grandmother and her brother (who were in their late-80 into early-90's) and each time they visited Grandma & Uncle Joe, they received money. And if my cousins asked for a car or someplace to live, they got a older model used car or a mobile home trailer or a house with reduced rent. HOWEVER, when I moved back to the same state and my brother had two kids and started to visit Grandma, she changed her opinion of my cousins and started giving money to me and my brother and she made sure that her will favored us.
What I am saying is that the person who spends time visiting-talking with, having fun with, and playing games with, is sometimes MORE LIKELY to receive some monetary "reward" for their time. Unfortunately, I have noticed (and other people on this forum have mentioned this), the person who is taking care of the person, helping them with their ADLs (bathing, dressing, toileting, cooking food, etc.) is LESS LIKELY to receive any monetary "reward" for their time. It seems that the elderly or dementia person sees their caregiver, not as their family member, but as a "servant" who works for them and thus, does not "deserve" any monetary reward for what they are doing. UNFAIR? YES! But it happens!!!
We have talked about the will and I know that our suggestions and comments haven't been too positive. Unfortunately, that is the way wills work.
Is there another problem that you want us to give suggestions about? If you just what to vent, then "VENT" or "Type, type, type", we want to support in whatever way we can. God Bless.
No she’s not w a registered agency
But 2 other caregivers r
They r on the up & up
Wish they were the full time care giver cuz they do the bulk of the work
She’s part time
She sets her own hours & comes & goes based on her children’s schedule
But they aren’t young
I get it
If I was in my 90s I’d probably want a cute young thing around too!
Yes it’s his $
Don’t expect any
Just think it would b nice if any $ is left to give it to family members who have been there his entire live versus a few years
But it’s his $
Sad tho a few years ago he had moments he couldn’t remember his son
That’s how far the dementia has progressed :(
My boss' wife was diagnosed with Alzheimer's and she continued working for 3 to 4 years.
You were comparing your income with that of a caregiver. Does the caregiver work for an agency or is she an independent contractor? What do you consider a hefty salary? If the caregiver works for an Agency she doesn't get the income that the Agency bills your Dad. Chances are she gets minimum wage or a tad bit more depending on her experience.
Usually school teachers who work for local governments get health insurance. A caregiver does not, the caregiver has to buy their insurance on the open market. Some school teachers have a 401(k) with matching funds or half funds. A caregiver does not. You have vacation days and sick days with pay. A caregiver does not. Bet the school has a life insurance policy on their teachers, a caregiver does not. So right there, you add up the net worth of your bonuses you definitely would make much more in income.
How many hours does the caregiver work each day? Usually State laws dictate how many hours are allowed, thus the reason for the extra caregivers. My Dad had 3 full-time caregivers each day, each working 8 hours per day.
You might want to see an Estate attorney with your concerns now.
As for parents leaving money for their kids. I'm already planning on how I can
save to leave money for my son. Of course parents should try and leave money
for their children. I personally consider it a duty. But that's just me I guess.
Should a parent forgo care or reasonable comfort during their lifetime to do this?
Of course not!! There should be a balance. But parents who expect their kids to
put their lives on hold to care for them and then give away their money to random
others or a scheming sibling? I'm sorry, but that's just grossly unfair. As well as seniors
who live the high life and then plunder the savings plus time and energy of their adult
children with no regard for their children's or grandchildren's future. I find those bumper stickers that read "spending my children's inheritance" off putting. Being able to leave a legacy is an honor.
I doubt very much in my case whether there will be much of an inheritance. My focus
is to make sure my dad had the care he needs with enough left over so he can have
some fun. And to make sure that I'm taken care of as well, meaning I'm not spending
down my own retirement to fund his.
I've have to deal with a variety of grifter types trying to take his assets. It's really a
problem with some folks. Consulting with an experienced elder care attorney is the
only way to go. Good luck!!
More than I made full time as a school teacher
She’s not full time
2 other care givers had to b hired because she wasn’t able to provide enough care
I’m surprised what she can do w her “bad back”
He’s had it @ least 3 years
She arrived last year
Just my 2 cents. I think that if the person is of sound mind and all siblings in the will have been informed and are aware that everything is on the "up & up", then it could just be a nice gesture. However, would be a good idea to review all legal documents.
It boggles my mind when I read on this forum, where POAs feel they can sell a house and take money from their parents with no guilt. Its not their house or their money. That one person does all the caring but those that did nothing are right there when parent dies wanting their share. They talk about the Mellinium kids but Baby Boomers are not doing bad.
My brothers could have done more when it came to my Mom. But, they have allowed me to make the decisions regarding her care without complaint. Actually, I have gotten thank you's. Yes, I kept them in the loop and appreciated their input. But none of us felt we were entitled to any of her money. We actually told her to spend it,
A will is a personal thing. A person can leave his money to his cat. As long as a child is mentioned in the will, the inheritance can be a $1, the will cannot be contested. Our parents owe us nothing.
A Will only governs those assets subject to probate.
If assets pass to another by Operation of Law (such as jointly held) or by Beneficiary (such as life insurance or IRA's where the beneficiary is not the estate of the deceased) THEY ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE PROBATE PROCESS AND THEREFORE NOT SUBJECT TO THE TERMS OF A WILL.
The administration of a Will upon one's death is conducted by the Probate Court that has jurisdiction. The process is time consuming and usually relatively expensive.
As a result, most chose to do some form of Estate Planning that avoids the probate process.
This planning is accomplished, as suggested above, by holding assets jointly with the intended beneficiary, naming Payable on Death (POD) or Transfer on Death (TOD) beneficiaries on financial accounts, naming individuals as beneficiaries on life insurance/annuity policies and IRA's, or by creating a Revocable Trust and titling assets in the name of the trust (upon death of the grantor the trust becomes "irrevocable" and assets are devised according to the terms of the trust by the trustee named in the document).
There are, however, instances where one might actually prefer that their estate be subject to probate as then the administration of the estate will be supervised by a Probate Court thereby assuring assets subject to a Will are properly devised.
Proper estate planning and proper titling of assets to accomplish same is a crucial if one wishes their assets to be distributed as intended.
Seek proper legal advice.
Questions about wills are never easy to answer as we don't know what the person was thinking at the time they wrote the will.
Could you give us some more background information about the person being cared for and the non-family caregiver who is to receive 25%? It would help us better understand your situation and maybe give more appropriate answers than what we have already given. Thanks.
If you mean the will was properly prepared by a legitimate attorney who observed the competency of the maker who included the 25% gift, then, of course it's legal.
Any competent person can leave their unencumbered assets to anyone they choose.
If the patient has dementia and the will changed after a dementia diagnosis, it can be challenged.
We are missing a LOT of info here, so hard to say where this particular situation falls.
My friend had no aims to be written in the will. She did finally quit, abruptly and she’s glad to get away from him!
Has the person died? If not, have to asked them about this?
Now that Probate is finally finished, I plan to write both of them checks to thank them for all their hard work and friendship with my Dad. The checks will go directly to their home address and not through the Agency. And for making my life more manageable during that time frame.
Points to check:
Was the person (the testator) of sound mind when she made the will?
Is there any suggestion that the non-family caregiver applied any sort of pressure or influence?
If the caregiver was employed by an agency or company, does her inclusion in the will breach any terms of her employment?
But assuming none of the answers to these questions is cause for concern, then what you have is generous acknowledgement of devoted service, and God bless both of them.
We need more information about your situation. Apparently you, a family member, are upset that a caregiver hired to take care of your loved one has been written into your Father's?? or Mother's?? will. How long has this person been caring for your loved one? Has the caregiver been living in the loved one's home while giving care to your loved one?
How many family members will be sharing the remaining 75%? Is there some HUGE amount of money or property to be inherited? Will that money possibly be needed in the future to pay for your loved one's care during their final days or has the loved one died and that is how you found out about the caregiver being written into the will?