Is it right or wrong for an elderly parent to pay their child for care?

I have a similar situation; elderly father in law suffered a stroke last fall. From hospital to nursing home now back in his home with his wife. The 3 children (my husband is one of them) share the cost of the home care assistance. The first month it cost $10,000. The next month the cost was $7,000. It averages about $2900/month currently. Split 3 ways is still $975/per child. The inlaws own two homes free and clear. One in the country they are from, one in the states. I have asked my spouse to look at his parents finances. Father in law has a pension. Both are on medicare. We don't own two homes. We own one home and have a mortgage. The in laws own two homes, both paid for. I am fiscally responsible and feel the in laws could also be responsible. Even paying 1/4 of the home care would help. The best option in my opinion is to sell both homes and get a small apartment where there is no upkeep (yard/inside) required. Currently, my spouse and a brother alternate weekends mowing the yard, cleaning gutters, purging household items (mother in law has a buying problem). This is causing resentment because my mom sold her home and is using those funds to pay for her nursing home care. I feel like my parents aren't as valued compared to my in laws. Any insight appreciated.

I wish my parents would pay for services my daughter and I do for them. The amount of time my daughter spent with my parents caused her to lose a lucrative job and my dad asked me to lend her money to pay her bills and now is dragging his feet about honoring his promise to reimburse me.

I’d be thrilled if my father had any honor but he doesn’t. I will be having a serious talk with him about this because it’s no joke.

I am fine with it. I stayed out of that arrangement. Just wondering if others thought it was high. Yes, Dad is okay with it, although he knows it's high. I am grateful to be spending this time with Dad; when this difficult phase is over and I am missing my dad so much, I can catch up on my sleep. No big deal. Thanks.

It sounds high to me since it doesn't seem to cover actual caregiving - just room and board, yet I know that in some parts of the country this isn't high. In the end, I like the question that JessieBell asked: How does your dad feel about it. My guess is that, at 96 and going downhill, this won't last a lot longer. Is it worth stirring up the pot at this point? If your dad is okay with the arrangement and you can make it with him paying your rent, it isn't too bad an arrangement.


Take care of yourself, too, though.
Carol

Hi JessieBelle - Dad is okay with it, but after spending 6 weeks with him since his decline, he has admitted he thought it was a bit high. But he said my brother could not afford his house without Dad's money. No big deal. I just thought it was a lot of money for a man who was basically taking care of himself. Thanks for the comments.

The big question is how does your dad feel about it. Has he mentioned it?

It sounds reasonable for most areas of the country, especially since it included food and utilities. It also allowed your father to live independently for a bit longer. Your brother and father probably decided on it when he first moved in.

To freqflyer: I live 1600 miles away from my Dad and brother. My brother called me when Dad took a turn for the worse, and I agreed to come and take care of him since things could not continue as they had been when Dad was doing well. To JesseBelle: No, it is not strange. I quit my job to come and take care of Dad. In the meantime, I left my apartment and have a lease. Without my job, I could not pay my rent. Paying my rent is much less than hiring outside caregivers to cover 24-hour care, which costs $20/hr. I would not charge Dad a penny to take care of him, but the practical matter is that I must pay my rent.

The main reason I wrote is to get opinions of charging your father $2000/month for room and board. He did not need special care until recently, which is why I came. Is $2000 high, low, or about average?

$20,000! It sounds like it is time for your dad to look at assisted living. That is a scary amount, FF.

MidWestSis, don't you feel a bit strange asking that question while at the same time writing that your father is paying your rent?

MidwestSis, it is costing my Dad $20,000 a month to have paid caregivers 24-hours a day. Just saying this as a comparison.

Curious, did your Dad call you to come take care of him, or did your brother? I am confused, you have an apartment yet you are in your brother's home taking care of Dad 24/7 and sleeping on the sofa?

Could you move your Dad to your apartment and that way Dad would only have one rent to pay instead of paying your rent [thus, Dad is paying you via rent] and paying rent at his son's house?

Reading all of this has been interesting. I would welcome comments about our family situation. After our mother died in a nursing home 2 years ago, Dad moved from their condo into my brother's home. Dad has paid my brother $2000 per month out of his savings. My brother prepares a frozen Stouffer's dinner for him every night, buys Dad's other groceries which are minimal as he has little appetite. A woman who helped Mom and Dad in their home prior to Dad moving in with my brother continues to come every Mon-Thu to prepare Dad's breakfast, do his laundry, make his bed, vacuum and dust the entire house, give Dad his lunch before she leaves at 12:30 PM. Her payment is $200 per week ($12/hr.), which is paid separately from the $2000 per month. Dad's personal bills which are minimal (no debt) are also paid out of Dad's checking account, not from the $2000. Dad is 96 years old and not doing well, so I came from 1600 miles away to stay and care for him 24/7. He can no longer get himself to the bathroom and had to be moved from his bedroom to a hospital bed in the living room the day before I arrived. I sleep next to him on the sofa. I quit my job with 2 hours notice and rushed here, which I was more than willing to do. Dad and I have always been close. I would never accept payment for doing this (I even get up in the night about 4 times to help him go to the bathroom plus remain near him all day). Dad has been an excellent father and would do the same for me... and has when I was a child. He is paying my apartment rent while I am here because by not working I could not pay the rent, of course. But I pay the rest of my bills with my Social Security. My question is this: Dad is far from wealthy: how many people out there agree that him paying my brother $72,000 in the past 3 years for room and board is a bit much? My brother and I are not arguing about this--we have never spoken of it. Now the arrangement is that my brother gives me cash from Dad's account to pay for groceries for the two of us, and my brother charges $1800/month room and board rather than $2000. Comments?

Where does one find a "caregiver agreement" and how (if at all) does it affect medicaid eligibility?

OH MY......Please be careful i went thru that and my family ended up taking me to court and it was NASTY but i ended up on top with the lord as my lawyer and i beleive prayer, god and miracles...if you want,,, read my posts and you will read what happen from the beginning to end

I have not read all the responses yet but I would run it by an Elder Lawyer and get advice he or she will know how to handle this-especially if the parent or parents I am not sure which-need medicaide some day the money you are given may have to be paid back but you sister should not worry about the inheirtance that is up to your parent or parents who they give money to-and in fact the money elders have is suppose to be used for their old age as they see fit-you might want to tell your parent that if you sister asks about any payment they do not have an obbagation to explain how the money is being used-and of course keep records because if medicaide is ever needed an accounting will be needed and if you sister brings it up you can tell her to take a hike.

Seems to me that all the top advisers say to begin with "family agreement". I wonder if you and your sibling discussed this prior to you making the decisions you've made. In business, you need to state your case and get buy-in. I suspect that family history or prior elder care scenarios could dynamics are more of an issue than stated here. Get your plan ready and clear for discussion with family. Do the math, tax advantages, etc. I doubt anyone would be concerned if your elder was covering their costs while in your home. Could your siblings have trouble with you profiting from care of elder? And always consider alternatives...live in your home but use outside care givers vs. compare your lost salaries. If you make/could make $50K outside go do it. Hire a house keeper with some elder care support for $20K. You are there morning and evenings for family time. Let your elder pay that vs. burden her estate. Everybody wins.

I LIVED A SAD STORY. MY DAD PASSED AND MY MOM WAS RELOCATED TO PA AND CT WITH MY SISTERS IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING HIS DEATH. SHE BEGGED TO MOVE IN WITH ME BACK IN FL AND I GLAD ACCEPTED HER. THE ONLY MONIES I ACCEPTED FROM HER WERE A FEW MONTHS OF ELECTRIC CONTRIBUTION. I HANDLED ALL THE REST. I HIRED AN ATTY TO LET MY MOM GAIN CONTROL OF HER MONIES AGAIN BECAUSE MY SISTER TOOK IT ALL. MY DAD'S NET WORTH WAS OVER ONE MILLION AND MY SISTER ONLY SENT MY MOM A PREPAID CREDIT CARD WITH SOMETIMES ONLY $400 A MONTH TO LIVE ON PLUS TOOK ALL HER SOCIAL SECURITY. WITH THE ASSISTANCE OF MY ATTY FRIEND, WE GAINED THAT MONEY IN AN ACCOUNT FOR MY MOM. THEN WITHIN A COUPLE OF MONTHS STAYING WITH ME, MY EVIL SISTER AND MY MOTHERS EVIL SISTER PLANNED MY MOTHERS "VACATION" TO VISIT THEM. MAKING ME CANCEL ANOTHER TRIP MY MOM WAS PLANNING WITH HER HIGH SCHOOL FRIEND. WELL, I NEVER WAS ALLOWED TO SPEAK TO MY MOTHER AGAIN NOR VISIT WITH HER ONCE THEY WERE WITH THE EVIL FAMILY BECAUSE THEY WANTED ALL HER MONEY. THEY EVENTUALLY STUCK HER IN ASSISTED LIVING. TO THIS DAY, A YEAR LATER, THE TWO TIMES I WAS PERMITTED TO SPEAK TO HER ON THE PHONE SHE TOLD ME SHE WANTS TO COME HOME TO ME BUT THEY WON'T LET HER. MY HEART BREAKS FOR MY MOTHER BUT I EXHAUSTED MY ENERGY TO HELP HER BECAUSE MY SISTER GOT EVERYTHING IN HER NAME ALREADY. SHE HAS STOLE FROM THE FAMILY TRUST BY GIVING THE FOUR WEEKS TIME SHARE MY DAD PURCHASED FOR EACH ONE OF US, HANDING THEM TO HER FOUR CHILDREN AND HERSELF. MY DAUGHTER EVEN TRIED TO VISIT HER IN THE ASSISTED LIVING, AS MY BROTHER, AND IT IS STIPULATED THAT EVERY VISIT WITH ANYONE MUST BE DONE WITH HER PRESENCE. NATURALLY WE KNOW THIS IS DONE SO SHE CAN BE SURE MY MOTHER DOESN'T LEAVE WITH ANY OF US. I WILL ADD THAT THIS WAS THE LEAST LIKED CHILD IN THE FAMILY. MY MOTHER AND FATHER ALWAYS HATED WHERE SHE LIVED AND WHAT SHE STOOD FOR AND REPRESENTED PHYSICALLY IN HER APPEARANCE BUT....IN MY DAD'S WEAKEST MOMENT OF ILLNESS, SHE COERCED HIM TO SIGN EVERYTHING TO HER AS THE POA AND FIRST TRUSTEE ON THE "WILL". MY DAD PASSED AWAY IN SEPTEMBER 2009 AND TO THIS DAY HIS WILL HAS NOT BEEN READ NOR DO WE KNOW WHERE ANY OF HIS ASSETS HAVE BEEN USED. I ANNOUNCED OUT LOUD IF EITHER OF YOU TWO ROTTEN SISTERS THINK THAT THE PASSING OF EITHER OF YOUR PARENTS IS YOUR WINNING LOTTERY TICKET, I HOPE YOU LOOK FORWARD TO ROTTING IN HELL BECAUSE IT IS NOT YOUR MONEY YOU ARE SOAKING UP AND TAKING AWAY. I DON'T CARE NOR EXPECT ANYTHING. I JUST WANT MY MOTHER TO LIVE PEACEFULLY AND HAPPY, FULL OF LOVE ALL THE REST OF HER LIFE. I WISH I COULD BRING HER HOME TO ME BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND WHY SHE NEVER HEARS FROM ME BUT THE PLACE SHE RESIDES WAS TOLD BY MY SISTER THAT I CAN'T SPEAK TO MY MOTHER. (FOR THAT MATTER, NO ONE IS ALLOWED WITHOUT HER PERMISSION). IN THE WORLD I LIVE IN, THAT IS CALLED ELDERLY ABUSE! SOMEONE NEEDS TO REPORT AND TAKE THIS WOMAN TO PRISON!!!!! I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. ANY SUGGESTIONS????

We are caregivers for my father inlaw, who lives with us full time. We do accept money for taking care of him 24/7 and have offered the same amount to any family member who wants to do the same. Of course, no one does, so we're THE ONES. Sometimes we have to go out of town for a week or so, and we pay the daughter or other son to take him. They don't seem to mind that, but not full time. At least every couple of months or so we get a little break.

I have plenty of thoughts on this. When I was Primary Caregiver for my MIL. She had the whole downstairs--it was part living room, bedroom and even had a bathroom down there. It was like her assisted living room at the nursing home, where she was before I offered to take care of her. My only request was that everyone (she had 5 kids and I was married to one of them) help out at least once a week. She paid room and board and I was paid for being her Primary Caregiver. I wasn't expecting that part until my DPOA SIL suggested it. We did our fair share of taking her to medical appts., and out to eat, to the park, to church, etc. My husband was the main one who took care of her house when she lived in it, so he took care of the things that needed fixing when she lived in our house. The DPOA SIL took her o/n 1-2 nights a wk or every other wk. The oldest SIL helped out when she could (on the wkends--usually taking her for dinner) The youngest SIL helped out by giving her a shower every week. I, sometimes, gave her a shower as well. The middle SIL helped out by drawing her blood at the house and taking it to the hospital to get tested (occasionally) and occasionally helped us out by watching her. ...but when I asked if she could help her brother and me out by coming over and watching her a little more often, she fell silent. There's no way we could do all the extras for her if she wasn't paying us. We accepted far less than what my MIL was paying at the assisted living facility and she has a Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) code on her. I found out it doesn't take long to get your NA license, but I don't know if I want to do that. I don't miss taking her to the bathroom or showering her. I guess the biggest slap in the face was when the DPOA SIL called my husband and said my MIL was going into the NH. Didn't even ask for my opinion (even though I spent the most time with her and knew what she needed) or my husband's (and he's one of her children). It was like pulling teeth, in the end, to get anyone of the girls to come over. The oldest, DPOA SIL, and youngest SIL were there in the end. It was like pulling teeth to get the middle to come over and MIL was falling more and more. I think some of them occurred at night and that's how she got the bruises. I wanted to call in the Nurse Aides, but DPOA SIL wouldn't hear of it. I only wanted them for a week--to see if she, truly, was falling at night. She began to have more seizures and hard to take care of, so rather than giving me the help I needed, DPOA SIL just pulled her out of here. Not caring what MIL wanted or needed. Medicare only pays for so long of a period of time, then if you don't have money, you lay limp. Don't get me wrong, I love my SILs, but they didn't share everything with us (what foods she ate when she was over at their house, etc.) . Sometimes, she had large bathroom (b/r) accidents in bed or in the b/r. Now my MIL is in a wheelchair (w/c) and can't walk. Or won't walk. Still haven't figured that one out. She wasn't like that when she went into the NH. Sometimes, she'd even outwalk me (faster than me).

well in case u cant do it when they get worse or run out of money, and u need them to go into medicare home or medicaid home they will do a 5 year look back to c wht was done with the money..i am the only caregiver for mom in ca. and am acceptting $1200 a month for 24 hr care- 30days a month....medicare told me to write down everything i do for her....after 6 months the mony will be gone accept for $2000 in her savings and $1500 for cremation then i will get paid thru in home supportive services..which is medi- ca.....good luck

With all that fighting going on out there, its nice to know that THERE ARE caregivers
who are not related and appreciate being paid, as I am @ $18. per hr.
to provide all the attention and love that most families are not able or willing to
do. While keeping the elder in their own home with all meals from scratch too !
The good thing about a lot of caregivers is, we don't have to deal with all that confusion I'm hearing about. We can simply love and pay undivided attention to
your family member. Its true ! you don't have to be related by blood in order to love someone.

YES YOU DESERVE what compensation you can get. Just so you know what the
AVERAGE going RATE for a Caregiver is here in Northern Calif. ..... I charge and
easily receive, $19.per hr. including meals and free access to the washer and dryer.
I do everything that the 8 adult children don't want to do for their 83 yr old dad.
They also warned me that dad is mean spirited and moody, with a verbal temper.
I cook everything from scratch and make sure he is in a CLEAN and HEALTHY environment. I even care very much that I 'do the right thing' by him, no matter what ! no matter how much headach he gives me at times. Because, I believe one can't expect to get 'later' , what you're not willing to give 'now'.

Did you ever think about offering your sibling a day's pay to keep your mother overnight occasionally. Hopefully you can find a good attorney to draw you up an employment agreement and get the poa taken care of. I trust you also have a medical power of attorney in case you have to admit your mother to a hospital.
Keep track of the money you receive from your mother. Also keep track of your other expenses, heat, power, water, repairs, mileage to the doctors office. You will have to include the extra income on your taxes, and if it is enough you might even have to send an estimated tax payment in each quarter. I would definitely find an accountant (your attorney should be able to refer you to one) to help you set up and do the taxes the first time.
My experience, I have been a 24/7 caregiver for my wife with FTD for the past 8 years. Prior to that, I operated my own business for almost 30 years. I always felt keeping good records was one of the most important thing in a business, and it is as a caregiver also.

My Mom is 88 and has Alzheimer's. I moved in with her in August 2010 when her husband (my step-father) passed away and she could not stay alone. I've been unemployed since my job was downsized in Nov. 2008, surviving on unemployment and that was about to run out. We are helping eachother. I care for her and her finances provide room and board for me. She is allowed to "gift" $13,000 per year without taxes on either end, so she gives me $1,000 per month in addition to room and board and she pays utilities, insurance, and property tax on my home (which sits empty an hour away). This is far less than the $18/hr it would cost for professional care, and far less than the $3,000/mo for assisted living. My brother comes once a week for a couple of hours to check on her so I can go for the day to my daughter's and see my two granddaughters (an hour and a half drive each way). My three step-brothers and their wives don't even come to visit her. When her husband was alive, they visited regularly. She is very hurt by this. I know when the time comes for her funeral, I will have a difficult time. I will want to say to them, "Why did you bother coming to the funeral when you couldn't visit her when she was alive." My tongue will be bleeding from biting it, I'm sure. When I want to go to my other daughter's (3 hours away) for a few days, I have to get help to come in three times a day. They will help then, but it's like pulling teeth and very stressfull until I get it all lined up. Then I worry that someone won't show up. I leave typed instructions for the caregivers and they still screw up. Mom doesn't have control of her bowels and that's the worst part so far..sooooo disgusting. Back to the money issue...my brother has POA so he controls the money. Mom wants to give me more because I'm the only one helping her. She wants to change her will and my brother won't let her. She tried to give me more money and he found out and said he thought I was a Christian and wouldn't steal from her. Mom and I both told him I didn't steal the money, she wanted me to have it. He made me give it back. I feel like I'm stuck here because I can't walk out on Mom, and I don't have a job if I go home. I made up a spreadsheet that showed what she is giving me and what it would cost for 24 hour professional care vs. assisted living. I gave him a list of everything I do to take care of Mom. But it did no good. He says she can't give a way her money. So I have to listen to her say she wants to change her will to help me more and I tell her she can't because he won't let her and she says it's her money and I tell her she signed away her rights to her son and she says, "I wouldn't do that." and I say, but you did. Talk to him. But she doesn't remember to talk to him about it when he is here. He would just tell her she can't give away her money and she can't change her will because her husband would want all of his kids to inherit the money. Anyway, it is not wrong to accept money from your parents for caring for them. We are doing something wonderful for them. I am hoping that God will smile on me for being a good servant. He will smile on all of us for caring for our parents.

Give me a break! From what planet are these people from??? Expecting you to take care of your parent for free or little or next to nothing and you'll be compensated with whatever money is left when she/he dies???
It costs money NOW to feed, clothe, and provide a roof over their parents' head or would they rather the parent go directly to a nursing home???

Bottom line is this: when our parents come to live with us they are getting quality one-on-one care, healthy food, more natural surroundings, comfortable accomodations, hygiene care, and someone to visit with. Not to mention, taxi service to doctors, shopping, hairdressers, etc. Most care facilities charge extra for these services. Whether a caregiver wishes to be compensated or not is between the parent and caregiving child ONLY.
Next time the sib whines, tell her/him that your parent would love to come an visit for an extended time and she/he will also pay her/him the "going rate." That ought to give you a few months of silence.
Under what rock do these people live?...bet you'll find my sib there too!
Geeezzzz.......

I too am caring for my Mother who suffers from Alzheimer's. My Brother is only worried about what will be left in the end. He even went as far to suggest I pay myself double and put half away for him. He has only visited 2 times in the year that I've had her. He only lives 45min. away. I have been beating myself up thinking I was doing something wrong by paying myself. She requires 24 hr care and my family and I have given up so much to take care of her. My Elder Law Attorney suggested it be called room and board for tax purposes. That makes me feel like I really am doing something wrong! I know she would want me to be compensated and I am saving her a lot of money. So, when the time comes that I can no longer take care of her she will have the finances to pay for the best care.

awwwwwww. Makes me so sad for her/you, and "them." My heart goes out to those failing, at any level. Each of us struggle, with something... So glad we can come here to vent!

lach 61, I can identify with the bathroom issue, the last time I took my mom on a trip, for a surgical procedure 500 miles away from home, right at the last minute before we were going to leave the motel room to go home, she totally messed up the bathroom. I sure got nasty looks from the maid who was trying to clean it all up as we were leaving, I apologized to her and left her an extra tip. Then we got in the car, a six hour drive to get home, and we were stopping every half hour at the rest stops to change the Depends. No wonder my nephew told us he would never take us to another doctor apointment out of town. Then when we moved her into the nursing home, the apartment manager could not get all the junk out of the carpet from the problems she was having at home, so they took $300 off of our deposit refund. I even found dirty depends she had junked in the cabinet underneath the sink, of course we got charged for dmaage to the cabinet from the moisture. I was hoping that I could take care of mom on my own, but the bathroom issue and her falling down in the apartment got to be too much for me, in addition to her constant demands and trying to use me as a dormat for all her emotional problems after her boyfriend died. Even in the nursing home, I can only stay so long and she starts up on me, wrapping her little finger around me, I do not think she will ever understand why she is in the nursing home, even tried to sue us for putting her there.

I think eventually your mother will have to face reality, unless your husband and kids are okay with years of this separation. You have done an amazing amount to care for your mom. How long can you do this? Please don't let guilt over your mother ruin your marriage. Good luck. Only you can make the decision that is right for you and your whole family.
Carol

If it is easier for you, talk to her doctor about getting a care conference organized to talk about her care.

My m-i-l had to go into the hospital and they had a care conference (social worker, nurse, doctor on call at the hospital, primary care physician and DPOA (Durable Power of Attorney) and everyone came to the conclusion that she was a fall risk and couldn't live by herself any longer. She went into the assisted living facility--she didn't like it. We were able to take her in, so we did. ...but she's getting to the point where we are not going to be able to handle her much longer at home. It's time for a nursing home when she can't feed herself, and is bedridden.
We've invested in a carpet cleaner. ...but it's not good for the fibers in the carpet to be cleaned more than twice a year. ...but it's not healthy if we don't clean it up. We're going to need to replace the carpet sooner than originally planned.