When my mom had her stroke last spring, I got healthcare POA over her. She's currently in a nursing home. A family member tried to convince me to get durable POA over her (which would include financial POA) when she was in the hospital last spring after I'd gotten the healthcare POA. I ignored their advice as I felt I needed to consult with an attorney with anything financial related and I was fearful a durable POA, since it would include the financial aspect of things, could possibly/somehow create a situation where the hospital or nursing home, etc., might seek me out for billing.
My mom has no money or income/assets or insurance and is in the nursing home she's in under a charity program that is paying for her bed basically.
I have an appointment with a local elder firm soon to discuss durable POA and the 'risks'. In the meantime my question is - does anyone know if having financial POA creates more 'risk' for me in terms of healthcare institutions seeking me to bill for any future care of my mom's? Does the healthcare POA create a similar risk in any aspect/s?
Has anyone here been sought after for payment on healthcare related expenses as a result of being health care and/or financial POA for someone?
(a)3: "The facility must not request or require a third party guarantee of payment to the facility as a condition of admission or expedited admission, or continued stay in the facility. However, the facility may request and require a resident representative who has legal access to a resident's income or resources available to pay for facility care to sign a contract, WITHOUT INCURRING PERSONAL FINANCIAL LIABILITY, to provide facility payment from the resident's income or resources." (emphasis added - capitalization on my part).
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/42/483.15
Not sure if this helps/answers any questions, but it helped put my mind at ease.
Is she really 112 years old? And no dementia? That’s pretty impressive.
Keep all receipts and online activities for every single red cent spent for the lookback period to to prove whose expenses they belong to. Many states count spendown back to five years. Your Mother's Expenses, Not Yours.
my company connects people with law firms that create Wills, POA's and most importantly those of us with elder parents Elder Care Law. you are welcomed to reach out to me if you have any questions or would like to learn more. my dad passed 2 years ago and my brother and i have POA for our 91 year old mother. plus we had her Will updated. there is so much to do and know to make sure our elderly parents are cared for while protecting both them and us.
Your mom must be mentally competent to sign a POA. A stroke does not necessarily mean your mom is incapacitated mentally to be unable to sign a POA. Strokes affect persons in different ways physically and mentally. Since you have Healthcare POA, you should be able to get any records regarding her mental state to show to the attorney. After a stroke, they likely have done some sort of assessment and follow-up assessments.
I'm guessing you are pretty familiar with her financial situation...amount of income (i.e. social security); nursing home costs and medicaid payments and whatever amount provided by charity; and balances of her bank accounts. That may influence the action plan so whatever you can provide the attorney may determine his advice.
If she is incompetent, then conservatorship and maybe guardianship would normally be in order which are court actions for appointment. There are reports required at certain intervals but with so few assets and payees of her expenses, it would not be that difficult for you to keep track of. But again, the attorney may have different advice based on her mental capacity and financial situation.
Wish you the best in working through this situation. Take care of yourself.
P.S. Please get the attorney to read any contracts you sign.
LEGALLY managing legal documents (healthcare, finances) doesn't mean you are personally responsible for paying outstanding bills (you are managing 'their' monies).
You need to consult an attorney so you understand all this.
You need this assurance.
As someone said below, you need to have your legal authority in place to protect yourself. Do this ASAP.
Get an MD letter/document indicating your mother is incapacitated to handle her financial affairs due to the stroke. This letter / document is needed / critically important for you to move forward (from what you tell us). Your mother is unable to make these decisions. You must get legal authority to do so.
I, personally, think that everyone should read the state laws that govern POAs for their state, because you are accountable to that law and ignorance is no excuse for breaking those laws.
You have zero personal financial responsibility for the person for whom you hold POA, but you shouldn't take on the responsibilities if you don't understand them.
My mother went to court to obtain guardianship of her mother.
Long story short - Her mother had resided with another sibling who then decided she no longer wanter their mother around when their mother actually needed to be physically taken care of rather than their mother helping the siblings/family financially while she resided there.
She dumped their in my mother's driveway and said "Your turn".
My mother went to a lawyer. Got durable power of attorney also went to court to obtain gaurdianship of their mother. She had to keep financial records of everything and give an accounting to the courts. However, she was never herself held liable for any debts incurred by her mother after doing so. She did have to spend down her mother's money in order for their mother to go on medicaid in the nursing home. At the point she obtained coustody, there was not much money left to spend down. Hope this info helps. Best to see a lawyer. The lawyer fees, gaurdianship fees were paid for from their mothers own account as neither benefitted my mother in any way. Also my mother paid for thier mother's funeral from their mother's account during spend down.
With Medicaid, I think most times, you have to pay them back after the patient dies so they're more similar to a lending agency than an insurance.
You are in more danger of being responsible for her debt if you sign anything without being her DPOA. You need to read every word of anything you sign. Most documents for services have hidden in the wording that by signing you accept financial responsibility. So you would sign as POA for mom and not just you to protect yourself from being responsible.
The checking account was in her name and the names of her 2 POAs.
Perfect record keeping, because NO expenses could be written against “her” account without being overseen by both POAs.
The other issue is once your loved one dies, your POA dies along with them. You have no legal standing once they pass.
With a financial POA, if there are other sibs or kin, they may ask you for a ledger, an explanation of how you managed your loved one's finances. I was asked for that and thank goodness I had saved all receipts, etc.
A money order check can fade as well so my savings bank changed how they were printed. Only in some cases do stores have a way to keep legal records on what you spend.
I took care of my the age 92 to 93-year-old mother back in 2012 to 13 with durable POA to pay bills on her behalf and Never got Billed with her expenses. She got Medicaid to pay her expenses. I was not financially responsible for her final legal or medical expenses because OR State where Mom lived will eventually get repaid after I leave my condo or pass away. Much more humane than the State of CA. The only financial responsibility left is a small promissory note against the CA condo where she once lived with me before nursing home in OR near my brother.
I hope you by now seeked counsel with an eldercare attorney about your mother's situation. Remember, you are never responsible for your mother's expenses. It comes from her Medicaid assistance and estate after her death. If no funds left, the State eats her final expenses, Not You.
Moreover, unless your Mother is completely mentally competent she can no longer confer upon someone a POA. This is done by a mentally well person, asking another person to manage ALL finances and keep track of every penny in and every penny out, and it is done when they are well for future needs. So it is too late to get Mom to give you POA. You would have to go for guardianship. And why would you? Do you have a reason to want this? Do you feel capable of keeping track of all the finances.
When you are guardian or trustee or POA you sign all papers as POA. So basically you are acting for the person as their POA or their Trustee or their Guardian. But you are not financially responsible for their care. Their own assets, which you manage for them, go to their own care and you keep records of it all.
An attorney will happily explain all of this to you. There is no reason I can see for you to have any of this while your mother is in care, her care is being paid for, and you already are managing her medical decisions for her.
I wish you the best. I was POA and Trustee for my brother. It is a BIG job and you have a lot of time on the phone and arranging things. It isn't to be taken on lightly. I wouldn't want to do this job for anyone again.
When your Mother passes you may be executor or her will or she may have appointed someone else. There will likely be no assets and what assets she had may go to pay back medicaid of whatever governmental agency paid for her care. She likely won't even have a probate to be filed.
I wish you the best.
True that I do know little about this which is why I'm seeking information and as mentioned, do already have a call set up with a local elder care firm.
A medical power of attorney — also known as a health care proxy or health care agent — is someone who makes health care decisions for the principal if they're incapacitated. It's their job to ensure a senior's wishes, as stated in their advanced directive or living will, are upheld in case of end-of-life care.
A general POA, sometimes called a financial power of attorney, gives an agent power to: Sign documents on the senior's behalf. Open or close bank accounts and withdraw funds. Buy and sell property, real estate, and assets.
I had my name on my parents' bank accounts which enabled me to sign checks FOR them, on their behalf, to close their accounts out when they passed, etc.