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By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid. We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour. APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment. You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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You wouldn't want her to get lost, end up in a wrong part of town and be exposed to danger.
Roads can be dangerous; drivers can be aggressive and hostile, including to little old ladies.
Is the car old? Does it need work? If yes to both, you might say that the car isn't safe as it needs work and you can't afford to have it fixed right now.
If she goes social functions, can she car pool with someone else? That would provide a nice social outlet with her friends, depending on the state of her dementia.
Offer to take her and make a Mom and daughter special day with a stop for lunch, dairy queen, perm, hair appointment, etc.
We need more information.... like what stage dementia?.... has she had any car accidents that she caused?.... how is her eyesight and judgment on the road?
If your Mom can get from point A to point B safely, let her keep driving. Otherwise, guess who will be the driver? If you have all the time in the world to drive your Mom where ever she wants to go, then fine. If you are working, it can become a nightmare trying to schedule time off from work for all the places your Mom will want to go.
I'm discovering that when dealing w/someone w/dementia, we need to cross out the word "reason." No more reasoning. Buh-bye.... You'll have to begin taking charge, and dealing with all the fallout. It's a very bumpy road, and often very frustrating and painful. This site and the lovely people on it have helped me tremendously though :)
There are dozens of reason, but not one will make the slightest difference to someone with dementia. For what it's worth you can mention their:
Slow reaction times that comes with age. Poor vision Poor hearing, making it hard to hear sirens and other cars. The danger to themselves (and others, like the little children who live nearby) The availability of other routes of transportation (senior shuttles, and family help, organizations who will drive seniors for a price)
You can mention: The tickets they got for going through a red, going too fast, going left of center, going wrong way on one-way streets The dents in the car The ruts they made in the grass on either side of the drive The missing side mirror on the car, broken off getting out of the garage. The times they got lost and had to have someone come get them The police officer telling them that they shouldn't drive anymore The fact that the doctor says they shouldn't drive anymore The fact that the Bureau of Motor Vehicles ordered them tests and already took their license away. The Fact that the insurance company probably won't cover their for accidents and liability if it finds out they don't have a license, or if they've been advised by a doctor not to drive, (even if the insurance has been paid for). Meaning they could lose every penny they own, including their home when the other person hurt in the accident sues their pants off.
Just don't expect any of it to matter. A dementia patient is all about "me, me, me". They won't listen to a single thing you say. They will insist that they drive perfectly. Insist that those tickets they got were unfair, "really don't count" (that's my Dad's usual comment) or just plain deny they exist. All those dents and scratches on the car must have been done by someone else It was all someone else's fault, or it never happened. Refuse to admit they were ever really lost.
They will argue (nonsensically) that the BMV doesn't have any right to take their license, and he'll sneer and say: "What are they gonna do? Arrest me? " and when you answer "yes". They won't believe it. And they will keep on driving. When you take the keys away, be prepared that they likely have several more sets in the house. And keep on driving. If you try to disable the car by deadening the battery, they will have a rare moment of intelliegience, can call the motor club to fix it, and keep on driving. And when you flatten their tire, to stop them, they will drive on the flat, for days. And when the police show up at the door to say, "Driving on a flat is dangerous", he will deny that it's flat, convince the cop to call the AAA again to fix it, and keep on driving.
And after you've gone through all the necessary steps and got their license revoked, and you call the police to say "He out there driving right now, without a license." Be prepared to the police to say they can't do anything about it, and even if there's an incident, they may merely drive him home, and do nothing about it. And if you tell the police you intend to just take the car away, the police won't back you up, because you really do not have the right to take away a car that does not belong to you.
BEEN THERE. DONE ALL OF THAT. (Except for him getting sued. That hasn't happened. Yet.) .....I wish you luck.
Further thoughts...try to create a reason that makes her feel good about herself, cared for and loved by you and your family, rather than as an old woman who's possibly a menace on the road. Isn't easy, but it'll be easier and leave her with some dignity.
That should read: "but it'll be easier for your mother to accept if it's presented in a way that makes her feel good about herself, and will leave her with some dignity."
Also be prepared to present alternatives as her first thoughts will probably be how she'll get around, on whom can she depend, what if there's an emergency, will she become a burden, etc.
One item I would take off the list is the poor hearing... if someone was giving *me* that reason for not driving I would be focused on the fact that there are millions of people who are deaf who drive.
With my dad, we told him that we were concerned because he had those dizzy spells and we didn't want him hurt by those crazy jackrabbits (his term for bad drivers). He'd always had low blood pressure so was used to feeling dizzy routinely.
The hearing wouldn't be a problem for a normally thinking person, because they would wear their hearing aid. My Dad just insists he hears fine, and won't wear it, while he's deaf as a stone. Like I said, the fact is that with dementia patients you can just take every single reason off the list. Because they won't listen to any of them. ...Looloo has is right, with dementia there is no reasoning ability, so reasons don't help at all.
The only thing that got through to her is that " If you get in an accident and they sue you, you will lose everything. Your house, your savings, EVERYTHING."
Pam, that I what I had told my Dad... that all his hard work, saving every last penny for the past 90 years would go to someone else.
Every now and then Dad will bring up driving when I say *no* I don't have time to drive him and Mom some place. I use to get hysterical whenever he said he would drive, it was like talking to a wall, over and over for the past 5 years... now I just remind Dad that he needs to call the car insurance agent to have his name placed back on the policy.
Yes, I think that Pam and freqflyer, were smart enough or lucky enough to make their "don't drive" appeals while there was still few functioning neurons to work with. I really thought that one would work, (the appeal to Dad's fear of losing everything financially) But it didn't. Dad just spouted more nonsense: "No they won't sue" and "I've never had an accident" (a lie) or "They can't take anything". And then as soon as I leave him alone, he's out the door and in the car. He's out driving right now....So don't wait. I waited too long. All I can do now is wait some more... It likely won't be long, I just hope it isn't something really horrible that happens...... There was a new crack in the tail light last Friday. I can only wonder what, or who he hit.
It dosent matter When you tell them.. they will forget again again and again!! dad has not driven in a year, and today it all came back up... along with "who sold the house" and I have to get to work... I',m tired
I meant HE had to get to work... He's had 2 pretty lucid days. if only it was 30 years ago.... People are still alive. He used to live in our vacation cabin (my in laws have owned it for 45 years... Our boat is his.. on and on....
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
You wouldn't want her to get lost, end up in a wrong part of town and be exposed to danger.
Roads can be dangerous; drivers can be aggressive and hostile, including to little old ladies.
Is the car old? Does it need work? If yes to both, you might say that the car isn't safe as it needs work and you can't afford to have it fixed right now.
If she goes social functions, can she car pool with someone else? That would provide a nice social outlet with her friends, depending on the state of her dementia.
Offer to take her and make a Mom and daughter special day with a stop for lunch, dairy queen, perm, hair appointment, etc.
If your Mom can get from point A to point B safely, let her keep driving. Otherwise, guess who will be the driver? If you have all the time in the world to drive your Mom where ever she wants to go, then fine. If you are working, it can become a nightmare trying to schedule time off from work for all the places your Mom will want to go.
You'll have to begin taking charge, and dealing with all the fallout. It's a very bumpy road, and often very frustrating and painful. This site and the lovely people on it have helped me tremendously though :)
Slow reaction times that comes with age.
Poor vision
Poor hearing, making it hard to hear sirens and other cars.
The danger to themselves (and others, like the little children who live nearby)
The availability of other routes of transportation (senior shuttles, and family help, organizations who will drive seniors for a price)
You can mention:
The tickets they got for going through a red, going too fast, going left of center, going wrong way on one-way streets
The dents in the car
The ruts they made in the grass on either side of the drive
The missing side mirror on the car, broken off getting out of the garage.
The times they got lost and had to have someone come get them
The police officer telling them that they shouldn't drive anymore
The fact that the doctor says they shouldn't drive anymore
The fact that the Bureau of Motor Vehicles ordered them tests and already took their license away.
The Fact that the insurance company probably won't cover their for accidents and liability if it finds out they don't have a license, or if they've been advised by a doctor not to drive, (even if the insurance has been paid for). Meaning they could lose every penny they own, including their home when the other person hurt in the accident sues their pants off.
Just don't expect any of it to matter. A dementia patient is all about "me, me, me". They won't listen to a single thing you say. They will insist that they drive perfectly. Insist that those tickets they got were unfair, "really don't count" (that's my Dad's usual comment) or just plain deny they exist. All those dents and scratches on the car must have been done by someone else It was all someone else's fault, or it never happened. Refuse to admit they were ever really lost.
They will argue (nonsensically) that the BMV doesn't have any right to take their license, and he'll sneer and say: "What are they gonna do? Arrest me? " and when you answer "yes". They won't believe it. And they will keep on driving. When you take the keys away, be prepared that they likely have several more sets in the house. And keep on driving. If you try to disable the car by deadening the battery, they will have a rare moment of intelliegience, can call the motor club to fix it, and keep on driving. And when you flatten their tire, to stop them, they will drive on the flat, for days. And when the police show up at the door to say, "Driving on a flat is dangerous", he will deny that it's flat, convince the cop to call the AAA again to fix it, and keep on driving.
And after you've gone through all the necessary steps and got their license revoked, and you call the police to say "He out there driving right now, without a license." Be prepared to the police to say they can't do anything about it, and even if there's an incident, they may merely drive him home, and do nothing about it. And if you tell the police you intend to just take the car away, the police won't back you up, because you really do not have the right to take away a car that does not belong to you.
BEEN THERE. DONE ALL OF THAT. (Except for him getting sued. That hasn't happened. Yet.) .....I wish you luck.
Also be prepared to present alternatives as her first thoughts will probably be how she'll get around, on whom can she depend, what if there's an emergency, will she become a burden, etc.
Every now and then Dad will bring up driving when I say *no* I don't have time to drive him and Mom some place. I use to get hysterical whenever he said he would drive, it was like talking to a wall, over and over for the past 5 years... now I just remind Dad that he needs to call the car insurance agent to have his name placed back on the policy.