Hi, everyone...
I asked earlier how to convince my husband to move back home...and it seems like at this point in time he's not going to move until his Mom is settled. (Back story: hubby moved in with parents while he recovered from his own health issues...ended up moving in full time when Dad declined. Dad passed and hubby is still there with Mom...six months later).
So...should my MIL live alone at age 92? She can cook (but prefers and asks for take-out a lot, and also leaves dirty dishes/pans out for days), can dress herself and can bathe herself (though there's no safety equipment in the bathroom), and is able to navigate her home relatively safely (the house is cluttered). She is hard of hearing and cannot really use the phone, and doesn't drive so she depends on my hubby to take her to the grocery store, etc. She also has never paid her own bills, or used an ATM card. It's questionable if she has early dementia or not - she can remember some details from events that took place years ago...and then tell you the same thing 5 times in the same day. (No formal diagnosis has been made.) Finally, as she's essentially house-bound, she has no one other than my husband for company. I worry this lack of socialization is making her memory problems worse.
She has made it clear that she doesn't want anyone in the house, so getting her to agree to in-home care is going to be difficult...but I believe she could use help with daily chores, cooking, and cleaning. Hubby seems to agree, but will not have the conversation with her. He wants to give her time as she did lose her husband. I understand that...but also feel like it's time to move forward. She's basically treating my husband as her surrogate husband and is not facing the life changes that occur when you lose a spouse.
Does it sound like she should live alone, or should she have some in-home help to continue to age in place? Would a facility be better so she can have others to socialize with?
Whether either of those things happen is the $64,000 question, isn't it?
FYI, this is almost certainly dementia, and whether there's a diagnosis or not doesn't really matter. You are observing the symptoms. It doesn't get better. Be ready for the next step, which could be wandering, setting the house on fire, or forgetting where the bathroom is. She shouldn't live alone, and she may not be capable of adjusting to the life changes you expect.
Her hearing problem needs to be addressed. Inability to hear contributes hugely to development of dementia because the neuron pathway from ears to brain begins to stop functioning. However, by waiting till this age to get hearing aids, she may not be able to understand how to use them and they may not do any good. You won't know until you try. I'll pass along what doctor said to my LO: "Get the best hearing aids that money can buy."
Absolutely NO on the in-home help. You have no idea how hard it is to get three shifts of caregivers who actually show up. And you'll need relief caregivers as well. Managing all of that is a full-time job, and no one is going to want to work in a cluttered house.
Good luck, and don't let her live with you. That shouldn't be an option.
Putting her in Asst/Memory Care is expensive. Being she is 92, that may not be a situation. Also, there are waiting lists for facilities.
She sounds capable of mostly caring for herself but could use in-home care. If she is low asset (not counting home, car, personal belongings) she may qualify for the Community Care Program. It's federally funded and wouldn't cost her anything.
The time for "that" conversation with her is here. She needs to decide where she want's to live now. If she wants to live where she is, in-home care must be involved.
Either choice, she will need to allow some form of assistance.
As mentioned in previous responses to your last posting, this all comes down to what your husband is willing to do and not do. He has to stand up to his mom and say I can't do this long distance caregiving any longer. I need you closer to my home to be able to help you.
I'm not so sure he is willing to do that since his parents took him in while he was undergoing treatment. Wasn't that the situation? I am trying to remember the details of your previous posting. This all comes back to your husband.
MIL will not like this. That's uncomfortable for your hubby, but it's OK. He should not expect her to agree or be happy about these major changes. Getting old kind of sucks and can leave you with very limited choices. But the issue now is her safety. I think hubby should decide which option he thinks is best for her - home caregivers or AL. And then put a plan in action ASAP.
Some therapuetic fibs may be needed. She won't agree to anything so he may need to get creative in the explanations. I told my mom that the cleaning lady and caregivers were for ME. I did not want to do all the cleaning. I needed help. I needed caregivers here so I could go babysit my grandkids and was not comfortable leaving her alone. If he prefers AL, tell her the house needs to be fumigated or some other thing that makes it inhabitable and then she just never comes home. He needs to be firm and not back down when she whines and cries. She'll adjust and everyone (well maybe not her) will be happier in the long run.
For me, at 92, given the level of clutter and so on that Mom has lived in (apparently with your hubby THERE in it WITH HER for 6 months) I think I might do supportive care for her such as you CAN do, check on her, and allow her to pass in her own home. At some point, given the nature of things, push will come to shove with a fall. If she survives the fall, she will be hospitalized and placement can likely proceed from there.
The truth is that this is one of those situations where there simply is no perfect answer. Mom is competent enough to make decisions and is making BAD DECISIONS. Not a lot of this is in your control.
As far as cleaning and clutter, if the clutter is dangerous, maybe your husband can work on making it safer before he leaves. It might be good to have a cleaning service in place if she could stand it, but she might still resist.
Moving to a facility is not a good idea for everyone. Some people do not like to socialize even if it would be easy to do so. Consider her mental state and ability to live alone safely. If she is wallowing in grief, she might benefit from a Grief Support group, espeically and open-ended support group where people share their stories and help each other as theylern to move on with the next stage of their lives. There are many online if she does not want to attend one in person.
However, this isn't 'the real world' as some do.
My client is now 104 and she still lives alone - although she has had support / caregivers for a few hours a day for years.
Of course (husband's mother) "she isn't "facing the life changes that occur when you lose a spouse." She is 92 and grieving - what 40, 50 ? years with her husband.
* She is bonded with her son / your husband. Period. There is no changing that.
* It is HIS decision whether to stay with her / his mother or return to you. It appears he has / is making his choice / decisions. Even though it hurts you and you feel frustrated with this situation. It is what it is. Are YOU facing life changes that occur? as you seem to expect this 92 year old woman to do?
I believe your stance or question / concern / objective is to get your husband back home with YOU. So you want to make an argument that "she can manage alone" and seeking support for that position - by asking us.
When the focus should / could be on the WHO.
The first question is: has MIL been tested for dementia? what is the MD diagnosis? This is important to know - for needed care (caregivers, move to a facility).
She can / your husband could set up caregivers easily enough. Even if she doesn't want them.
The issue (seems to be) that your husband is making a choice that you do not want nor like. You feel hurt and trying to hang on / strategize... but for what end ?
In you feeling lonely, hurt, and frustration, you may be pushing your husband away. Even if his mother could / can manage alone, you know your husband won't leave her.
While you may not be pushing your husband to 'come home,' I sense the best strategy is to have an open heart and support him and in his decisions. Let him know you are on 'his side' vs a tug of war with him in the middle of you and his mother. This, of course, will not be easy for you to do. THINK of the outcome that you want ... You would likely benefit from outside support - therapy - church - friends. Lean on others now and take off the stress(ors) off that you are putting on your husband to 'come home.'
Give him room and let him know you are there - supporting him and his decisions.' He is doing what he wants anyway. You will not change that. So support him so HE feels it. It has to be real. You may not 'get there' or be able to do that w/o therapy or professional support.
Gena / Touch Matters
Your response to this poster is inappropriate to say the least. Please be respectful of other posters. Everyone is entitled to their opinion whether you agree with them or not.
You can agree to disagree on a subject matter without being offensive.
Read through what the OP has said about her situation. You might want to change your opinion on your comment.
This woman is not demonstrating the behavior of an independent person. Her son has been living with her for months and he has a wife at home who is concerned.
I understand that he may have a close relationship with his parents but moving into their home to recover is a different matter.
You’re right to say that he has become a surrogate husband after his father’s death. He’s taking excellent care of his mother but seems to have forgotten that he has a wife and a life of his own.
How is he doing? Has he recovered enough to be a full time caregiver for his mom? How is your health?
I understand that his mom needs help. It’s ridiculous how some seniors are adamant about not wanting outside help. Of course, your mother in law is grieving but that doesn’t give her the right to monopolize all of her son’s time.
Speak to your husband about your concerns. Tell him that you are lonely and would like him to return home. Outside help needs to be hired or she can go to an assisted living facility.
Your MIL can take her pick of those things. Otherwise, your mother in law will continue to take advantage of having full time service provided by her son.
Was she someone who socializes with others before? If not, I doubt that she would start being that way now. Assisted living facilities will encourage her to interact with others but if she’s more comfortable not socializing, let her be.
I hope that your husband will return home soon and that he can go back to being her son and not have to be burdened with being her full time caregiver anymore.
Maybe you could start gathering some information to pass onto your husband about assisted living facilities or agencies/private caregivers that are available for in home sitters.
Council on Aging is a wonderful resource as a starting point to get an assessment of her needs. Call them and set up an appointment. They can offer recommendations for future care.
I cannot say whether it is time to move forward or not. It is normal for your your MIL to be using your hubby as a surrogate husband.
For socialization, I would suggest having your hubby take her to senior day care once or twice a week to build up her confidence in dealing with other people. Allow her to observe and begin to see how others are living. Allow her to rely on other people rather than just your husband. Not all senior care centers are alike and it does take some research.
In my state, we have an Americorps senior program that connect seniors with other seniors. Able bodied seniors will help preparing meals for Wheels-for-meals. They will call others who have experienced similar grief to provide additional support and friendship (they never meet face-to-face).
I would not push the managed care option at this time. Your MIL needs to build up her self confidence or she will consider managed care just a senior jail and place to being dumped.
Think of it like helping a child through their first months through preschool or kindergarten.
The problem is the husband needs a backbone . The woman is 92, she’s not going to try to accept changes on her own. She wants things to stay the way they are now .
Get assessment done for her cognitive status to determine if she is safe to live alone with some help coming in part of the time . If not, the answer is right there that she goes to assisted living because if 24/7 supervision is needed at home , it’s too expensive . Maybe say that Medicare is requiring a doctor visit . Tell the doctor ahead of time the issues . If MIL knows it’s for cognitive testing she may refuse, and insist her brain is fine . ( Been there ) Don’t tell her .
Sounds like she definitely needs some help even if it is determined she is safe at home alone part of the time . If she refuses having help come in the house , she goes to assisted living .
Assisted living would be preferable , she would have her meals made , and have socialization . She doesn’t want to make meals at home . She would also have her cleaning and laundry done for her .
I understand what your husband is thinking . But MIL is not looking for any of this to change . She wants to be waited on by her son , that’s why she has made it clear that she does not want any help coming in the house . She will not face these life changes so long has hubby is there with her . Six months is a long time to be staying with her . It is time to either get help in or she goes to assisted living .
If none of the above works , come back to us , we can tell you other ways to try to get Mom out of the house like calling your local Agency Of Aging . I had to use this route because Mom would not allow help in or go to assisted living , or go for cognitive testing . They sent out social worker to my mothers house and determined she could not be alone and needed 24/7 supervision . I assume your husband would have to move out first , so she is living alone .
I’m assuming she will refuse help coming in . Then you have the battle of getting her out of the house . Good Luck . Come back here for more help with that .
When they CAN’ T or WON’T do these things then they are NOT INDEPENDENT . Having their child do it and refusing hired help to come in is propping up a false independence.
I truly wish you the best.
Your husband can pay her bills for her or set her up for automatic payments. I would suggest he get permission from his mom to look at her account online so he can catch any unusual activity when it happens.
Housekeeping, errands, travel to doctor appointments can be family, friends, members of faith community - or paid help. Make sure somebody is calling her or checking up on her daily to make sure she is OK.
Socialization can be in many forms. It depends on whether she likes large groups of people or 1-3 people at a time. Introvert/extrovert personalities tend to be inborn - a genetic trait. If she likes large groups, then she may benefit for senior outings. If not, a companion or helper is probably preferable. Also look into adult day programs that usually care for individuals Monday - Friday during the day. Some programs are available in senior residential communities. Others are available in private residences or companies.
Mother wasn't the neatest or cleanest person - I guess at 95 one doesn't have the eyesight or physical ability to maintain things as they used to be. So, did have a cleaning person come in every other week to help out. But mother could do her own laundry. As long as it was awful or a biohazard, it's her place, her life.
Covid isolation did do a number on her. She was a social person and enjoyed talking to all her immediate neighbors and doing activities with them. With Covid, it isolated her - she did use her phone to talk to her friends who lived in other states or another country. But I did notice that the longer the isolation went on, the more her memory was affected - her not talking to others affected her ability to remember words, events. Even though she watched tv like 10 hours a day- because it was a one way interaction, her brain didn't get the stimulation it needed to stay sharp.
We put all her bills on autopay, and when I stopped over 1x week, I would take her grocery shopping (where she used an debit card with a bank account that I monitored), and/or medical appts.
Is your MIL safe to live alone - idk since I am not privy to everything about her. But the one thing I WOULD highly suggest is for her to have one of those 'help I have fallen' devices that she could activate if needed. That was what my mother had when she fell - she couldn't get to a phone but at least she was wearing her medical alert gizmo and activated it. Also, perhaps install some video cameras so you can see how things are going when you are not there.
OP can choose to accept that DH is staying with MIL. That keeps the show on the road as it is now. OP can stop accepting it (I’d change the locks myself - shock tactics). Then DH has to choose whether the marriage is over, or if he needs to change.
Someone has to say NO before anything is going to change. There are options to look at, but at present there is no incentive for MIL or DH to consider them. It's not about 'convincing them'. It's about each person choosing from AVAILABLE alternatives.
PS NVyankee is still bitter about something where she should have had a choice for her belongings not to be dumped, and she wasn't given that choice. This is about informed choices for everyone involved, not about dumping options.
Llama is correct .
There are only two scenarios that will happen .
1) husband grows a backbone and makes his marriage a priority .
( If his mother truly needs someone with her 24 hours a day then she needs to go in assisted living ). If she doesn’t need 24 hour supervision , your husband should be coming back home to live with his wife and hiring some help , house cleaner , companion , whatever is needed .
2) Divorce.
The question is how long are you going to wait ? Unfortunately , I think you will have to give your husband a deadline to start living at home again with you . It does not mean he has to stop going to see Mom all together .
Has your husband said how much time he wants to give his mother , before having “ the conversation “?
Because if he’s waiting to see a change in his mother that makes him think she is ready for that conversation , he will be waiting forever . His mother has settled in with your husband being her new surrogate husband . She has made it clear she does not want anyone coming in the house . She’s 92 , she’s not motivated to face life changes .
You could offer to help your husband getting help for his mother , work as a team , but with a definite deadline to try to meet for him to come home to live with you .
It's your mil you husband feels he needs to be with her know. That's good and bad . You are his wife and a conversation should been given with her present. Yes it sound like she needs assist. Yes they refuse new person in home . protection of their items. What need to happen family meeting then call Elder Law to acknowledge your rights and hers. The best thing is to see what all the that clutter is. Then select a day to bag and take it to a dump. Get several helpers . Bag and go. Don't even wash up dishes or pots trash .
Surrogate husband, yes she has lost recognition . Your husband is enabling her on that . She .just look at you as a women trying to take her man. So true confusion. Set in .
Have you tried Respice care first 28 days they keep for financial fee. Not 30 days make permanent residence. Great way to test. Don't visit until five days in adjustment. How about adults Day care twice week . Next time plan vacation clean house use Respice care . Great for me. Cleaned out mother's stuff call got junk company paid them to get rid of large items. Take two days before trash day bag it up get it out . Sanitize everything. CV lean clean Clean . She never missed it. Don't do forget medicine cabinet. Another great assistance mother's PCP & Elder Law
Respectfully