What are siblings legal rights to know about mom's stage 5 Alzheimer's since sister has taken control and lies to us?

It's got to be horrible for you to sit on the sidelines and see this manipulation.

This is a very tough situation, but you seem to have siblings who can back you so in some way, if you can gather strength from each other, maybe you can approach your mother together.
If you are asked to contribute to your Mom's finances, you should be getting an accounting of why the money is needed and how it's used. Your sister shouldn't balk at that and you can feel free to hold back money until she gives you an accounting.

From an outside view, your sister seems to be skewing everything in her direction and using your mom. If you think your mom is in a dangerous situation (not enough help) you could ask Social Services to do a welfare check. You could, also, of course, ask for help from an elder law attorney. However, be prepared for
a permanent family split if you do.
My heart is with you,
Carol

mom1of6, I smell a rat here don't you? Since you siblings have been giving money to help, that's where the rat smell comes in I think. Sister has an agenda of her own, time to find out what that is. Carol is right, have a social worker do a welfare check and see what's going on. If I were your mom and thought that none of my other children wanted to see me, I'd be depressed to wouldn't you? But I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turns out to be all about money. It's that whole 'LOVE of money being the root of all evil' that the Bible talks about.

The only thing that came to my mind was to go visit your mother if you haven't already. Are you in the same town? If not, plan a trip. Seeing you may be good medicine for her and set her straight about the support that she has from her children.

My sistre says once money is given, it should never be questioned on how it's spent. It is a personal issue with mom. I quit giving mom money last year, because of this, but 3 of my other siblings still do (1 doesn't care how it's spent, she feels guilty about the past history with mom and her; other sister claims they have no money, but just doesn't want to for some reason). Mom doesn't want anyone in her home visiting or otherwise, except the one sister (who hugs and is always kissing mom). I live about 12 miles away and did visit mom, but she got very hostile towards me and accused me of lying about everything that has happened - maybe it's part of dementia, but my sister has made it worse by pointing fingers at two of my siblings and myself. I took care of mom for 2 mos. while trying to complete a move into our new home (in my home) and never expected anything from anyone, except to call mom while she was recuperating from broken bones in her back and ankle. I paid my grdaughter (CNA) to stay with her while we finished moving into our new house. Sister gave me some money to help a little which was fine and told me not to tell her husband. To top it off, 1 sister and 1 brother paid the full amount plus more to her, but never told me about it. I still send flowers to mom for her borthday and Mother's Daya and remind her that I still think of her and love her. She has called (couple days after receiving it) and says thank you, no other conversation.

Your sister says you should give money and not ask what it is used for. But she's full of it, isn't she?

With stage 5 dementia I am surprised she remembers to call you to thank for anything, sister must be reminding her to make the call. Do you ask her what she bought with it, if sister took her out for errands? Something just does not make sense. Rather than send a check I would send items she needs.

What we discovered with mom at 86, is that she would tell everybody different stories, even her MD's. She would call and complain she was in agony, but never mention pain at the doctor's office. She would say we needed to come over right away, but refuse an ambulance. She may complain about care to you, but tell your sister she is thankful. We finally put our heads together, we would call each other and compare what she told each of us today. Wow! we found out we were all getting wildly different reports, like she would tell each of us what she thought we wanted to hear. I have a feeling your mom may be playing the same game.

Who has the POA? Some needs to have the financial POA and someone needs the medical POA?

Who has these tools, if no one you may want to seek out a lawyer.

For me, I have the opposite problem, I have siblings that are in denial or don't understand what Alzheimer's. My siblings accuse me of lots of things, because they can't admit the truth about their own behavior.

I hold the medical POA, I pay the bills and cover anything of mom's after her paycheck pays the bills afford out of my pocket. So I have a different situation, but you need to know who has the POA's and then seek out an attorney that specializes in eldercare to learn your rights.

I am seeking an attorney now to protect me from siblings who's true colors are now showing.

Not sure where the "stage 5 dementia" came in, because that's not what was on the original question that I clicked, and it's not in your profile - is that what stage she is in? Anyways - I think you and your other siblings ALL need to visit your mother one day, sit down and lay everything on the line with your manipulative sister. Let your sister know that you will ALL participate in her care, and she does not have the right to restrict access to your mother and tell lies about you to accomplish that. As far as the money goes, does your sister have another job, or is she caring for your mother full-time and expecting "payment" for doing so? If this is the case, then she should be honest about it. It's time to ask hard questions of her and expect answers.

Without knowing all of the details it appears your sister is isolating your Mom from the rest of the family. She maybe even threatening her if she communicates with her other children. This is clearly a sign of elderly abuse or exploitation. Money, many times, would be the catalyst for this.
If she is burning things and living alone this is a dangerous situation which needs to be addressed immediately. You and your siblings need to see your Mom and spend time with her...just go, dont ask if you can come. If you find the situation isnt safe or she is not getting the care she needs then you can intervene. I would also seek out an eldercare attorney for your legal rights and for who is the medical and financial POA.

First of all, being in the last stages of dementia is "not being great". You do not state whether you are in the same city as your mother, but petition the Probate court (for a nominal fee-court fees) to have a court investigator investigate your situation. A person diagnosed with this late stage dementia will not be believed by the court, so make sure you have either recorded or documented all of the allegations you are bringing against this one sister. Also, produce all financial records you have contributed. You do not mention if that sister has a POA. That is crucial for us knowing that because when someone has a POA, then they is not much you can do, but if the POA is filed with a court, the same suggestion above would apply. You can always plead your case. Family disagreements are always present due to the stress of dementia in loved ones and if money is involved (inheritance) there is more stress. These family dynamics were probably always present, but until mom got ill they had not surfaced to this extent until now. I've already had my court battles with four siblings, so I know how nasty family members can be. Good luck!

If I were you, I would pay careful attention to what psteigman has to say; don't let anything your Mom says alienate you from any of your siblings. You'll be sorry later, trust me. Your natural care for your mother, and very natural, inborn jealousy of other siblings, will blind you to the manipulations a mother is capable of! It is inherent in us to believe anything "mommy" says, and ingrained in us from birth to care for this sacred person. Nothing wrong with that, until we become adults. It took me over 40 years to figure out how my mother systematically played me, my brother, and even my father and grandmother, in order to get whatever she needed at that moment from any of us. By the time she was done, I had been alienated from every single one of my close family members, and in truth, it was all due to our own stupidity, and inability to conquer our emotions, and TALK to one another. And now, it's too late. Even if I am willing, they are not. It isn't that mothers are all evil; they are simply in a position to do this most of the time. As they become older and sicker, they get frightened, and go into "save myself" mode, which causes even more of this behavior. And elderly people are not little children to be taken care of, told what to do, and placed here and there. They have the right (and in some cases the money) in society to make their own decisions, and do what they please, even if they are ill, or have Alzheimer's. This can make things even more complicated and emotionally draining. The answer of compassion01 might be the way to go. Make a couple of unscheduled visits, but don't completely step all over your sister's right to privacy. Just do it once, and if necessary, twice, to be sure things are okay, or find out if they're not. And as for money, that can REALLY tear a family apart. Don't do anything you'll regret, later. Find out as best you can what Mom really needs, and see that she gets it. Let your other siblings know in a way that won't make them feel you are pushing them to do more for your mother. Let them know you just want them to be apprised of everything you are doing regarding mom, and that if they could tell you stuff, too, that might be helpful. If sis won't account to you, then do your best to find out on your own. Try to maintain a good (sort of?)relationship with her if you can; you will need her and your other siblings long after your mother has passed (which I hope won't be for a very long time.) Sorry if I sound bossy! Your situation just resonated with me, I guess.

WHEW!!! It's like da ja voux for me to read all these posts - all excellent ideas and advice. 1) your Mom is a danger to herself @ Stage 5 Alz; living alone and burning food - 1st red flag...
2) - 2nd red flag...your sister is manipulating her and you and your siblings - time to have your county/city elder abuse office make a surprise visit; I mean surprise, because if they call to make the appointment, things will not be in the "natural" state; I know this from first hand experience and then I was labeled a troublemaker. My Dad was abused physically and financially by my brother.
3) Every sibling has a different relationship with a parent each unique in his/her own right and the dynamics can be either positive or negative. Go visit your Mom, keep the conversation on the basis of your relationship with her, not what your sister has told her. Other siblings should do the same - or better yet - all go together on a regular basis to keep an eye on things. 3rd red flag...One controlling sibling can do so much damage to a family it is unbelievable!
4) be sure you have a social services agency and staff you can trust and depend on. They are not all equal in education, honesty, and services.
5) get her to her doctor and inform all siblings via email or better yet, get them to go with you to hear what the doctor says; if she in Stage 5, she must be on some kind of medication? There are other conditions that mimic Alz. - has she been tested? complete blood work panel? neurological tests?
6) A health care POA and durable POA should be in charge, be honest and up front with all family members to what is going on. 4th red flag...Whoever is spending her money needs to be held accountable how/what is spent for her; and those who are contributing to her care are legally privy to an accounting.
There you have it - I've been down this road; nothing is sacred and family members you thought you knew and trusted, can turn against you - don't let that happen to you. Good news tho' - we sisters have reconciled - because I wanted to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. God bless all you caregivers out there and keep the faith - without it life is tougher.

I can't imagine living so close to mom and not seeing her regularly. I would go over and visit her whether she complained or not. You would see what is really going on and mom would know that you love and care for her. Your sister has to allow this unless she has Power of Attorney and can explain to a police officer why you can't be there. Wishing you much luck!

Call Adult Protective Services right away. They will show up, unannounced. And they will talk to your Mom alone, as well as with your sister. I would also say that you all contribute money towards your Mom's care, but your sister won't tell you how it is spent. Your sister sounds like she is isolating your Mom, and probably taking money. That is Elder Abuse. Adult Protective Services will definitely take a look at your sister. My brother reported me (after I filed a Temporary Restraining Order against him because he assaulted me). Let me tell you, I had to provide documentation and the case worker contacted me a few times. Thankfully, the case was closed. But those few weeks were HELL for me. Thank God, they took into account he called AFTER I filed a Temporary Restraining Order, and that it was retaliatory.

If mom really doesn't want visitation from us, I don't want to be there (as my brothers) because it just may cause her too much stress which may in turn, cause her Crohn's flare ups. I want to keep mom safe even if I have to stay away, even if I never see her again, though, I really want to. I saw her last June 2012, and at that time there was so much hatred for me even being there and calling me a liar ever since I was little that it made me think maybe it is her dementia. Mom use to be such a sweet and happy, laughing person and I noticed a change about 10 years ago when she seemed to slowly turn to my sister (one yr younger than me). Promises were made, accounting I was doing for me was being questioned (thankfully, when I paid her bills with my money, I noted it in her check book - I paid 2 credit cards of hers off and was paying the last one down when one otehr sister took the ckbook and never returned it). My youngest sister was taking over her book work and I let her. I was cleaning myself from it. Unfortunately, that checkbook disappeared or so I'm told. Mom did play one sister against the other at this time, I'm sure it was attention getting which she got. I backed off as not wanting to be part of this. Then stories were being made up. Yikes! One never wins when one is trying to do the right thing. Mom won't accept anyone saying anything negative about sister. I try not to, I have asked her what she feels I did wrong and If I am in the wrong I'd like to correct it. She won't answer me except to say I have always been a liar and sister isn't.

Your Mom needs protection from herself first and foremost; she also needs to be protected from controling children. Lots of damage has already been done all around and someone needs to step up and stop it. Does she have a clergy who would talk with her? I can't imagine not seeing my Mom for almost a year, you are a gem of a daughter to not want her chronic illness flare up because of your visits. Did you say your brothers don't go either? Who is planting the accusations of lies and what are they founded on? I am truly sorry for your family; so much precious time is being wasted when you could all be enjoying your Mom together. I suspect her meds are not working, maybe not even the right ones. Can you call her doctor and explain what is going on - would her doctor be open to talking to all of her children, or a visiting nurse service? Please get some help because no one will win this one except maybe the ones using her money for themselves, if that is a possibility. I've asked too many questions I think...but maybe some things for all to think about. Please take care of yourself and stay safe. Do you have clergy or someone you can trust to talk to who can help you? Lots of advice in these posts.

I guess two questions -- how much money are you & other siblings contributing & how long has it been going on. I do agree that you shouldn't just be forking over increasing amounts of cash because sis says so. DO call Doc & tell him that Sis is saying "all OK" but you are concerned about Mom. Let him know that Sis seems to be covering for your Mom so that she can continue to live in unsafe conditions. Even if he can't tell you anything because of privacy concerns it alerts him to the Sis issue.
Sis saying bad stuff --Unless Sis herself is telling you that she has said horrible things about you how do you know? You can NOT believe whatever your Mom says at this point.
Dementia makes the person's mind go off on all kinds of crazy tangents -- "someone" is stealing their money, has stolen their clothes (but put new ones in their place!), is spying on them, is watching them through the walls with some "device" while they go to the bathroom (!!!), has moved the walls of the house to make it smaller, has rearranged the rooms of the house (again...!!!), there bedroom has disappeared and they are outside in a park ....where will they sleep? (said with wide-eyed sincerity while lying in bed, same bedroom for 30 years...).
Oh, and to make it worse, the wrong ideas are set in stone! Correct as often as you like, but the false idea keeps reappearing.

Excellent points, horserider!

If I read the question correctly, your question is basically what rights do you have knowing your mother's health issues? Well you have every right to know all of your mother's health issues from her doctor(s) if you are there by her side, that's it pure and simple. If children do not participate in the care of a parent, especially to not bother to be there for a doctor's appointments and especially in the hospital, you simply will be left out. I have seen entire families sitting in waiting rooms with one parent, as well as at hospitals. I have two children and frankly if both of them were not there for me during medical issues, I would be hurt by that. Money is not everything, money is not love. It is really more important to show your love by holding a hand and telling someone you love them than sending a check, especially as family is aging or have terminal illness'. Stop giving money and start being there for your mother. If she's influenced by the sister it will pass once she knows that you and your other siblings are there for her, if the sibling is manipulating the situation your lack of involvement only feeds it, plus if a parent as so many children, and only one is around that puts out any effort in care giving, yah, said parent is naturally going to have more of a relationship with that child than the other's. Yes, care giving is hard, yes it is work, but well worth it, I myself went through this, I'm still going through this with my Dad, I would rather live with the stress of it now, than the guilt later knowing I was not there for my mom and dad, and only sent a check. Meant with love, hugs to you, hope everything works out.

You make excellent points GrannySmith. The saying, "out of sight, out of mind" is appropriate with Alz. patients. The family is her lifeline - all of you. Also meant with love. We can relate.

Wow...agree with much of above.
Though...
....if Mom, at any time, said, or put in writing anywhere, that she wants to prevent certain people [including family members] learning of her health, those she named would be prevented learning ANY information of her health
....likewise, if the sister in charge has POA, and has put that limitation into her medical charts at the Doc's or Hospital.
I ran into that...
Mom got so angry at life, and always had to have a target to spew at--I became that when she moved here.
That I had a psych eval done on her while she was hospitalized, and that I told them of her mental history which caused them to get a sitter for her [which told me they were not really listening...], was kinda the last straw.
....Mom took me off the right to know list while she was in the hospital that time.
Shortly after, she demo'd her worst behaviors more often, convinced my siblings once and for all what a terrible person I was, got them to utterly believe her accusations...which motivated one of them to come move her outta here.
It was a very ugly episode.
It still hurts very badly.
Mom finally managed to accomplish what she'd been trying to do for decades: cut me out of her herd.
It came down to: they all showed behaviors and words that let me know they wanted me to -not- be part of them...so I gave that to them--it was the last thing I could give, I was so wrung out; have not contacted any of them any more than absolutely necessary--and they have kept their distance, too...I refuse to allow them to keep doing damage in my life--cannot live like that anymore.
Eventually, they may see/learn that Mom sold them a pack of lies.
IMHO, it is unsafe for me let them into my life anymore.
I would never know if/when they might behave that way again....they are much like Mom in those ways. It has been epically bad for my health, my spouses' health, and my kids health--mentally and physically.

The Take aways:
1. Get necessary legal paperwork to determine who is in charge of what, done before need--POAs for caregiving, financial, medical, etc., and make sure everyone has copies.
When communicating with them all, put everything in writing, and mail it return receipt requested. Keep FILES on everything. Keep notes on the calendar about EVERYthing. If you must, make recordings--video preferred, to put a face to the words heard, and make it have embedded dates/times/witnesses information.

2. If it appears, in any way, that people are gonna argue,
put that control into a "disinterested 3rd party" who is hired to deal with that stuff,---removing it from family member's hands
--choose carefully & well-
--there are too many lawyers who set themselves up with "plums"--estates they handle, to their benefit, not the family's--we got shafted by two of those handling one relative's estate.

3. Be aware: control issues, or financial issues, one or more family members have, over an elder who is losing their capabilities, will more often than not, brings out the WORST in people. KNOW that, going into things.

4. If your elder has had a hard life, behavior and/or emotional issues, etc. troubles all their lives, these only get worse with age and infirmity:
Plan ahead.
It is hard, in the best circumstances, to get through these episodes in life.
Do your best to set things up to minimize friction, maximize good care for your elder.
It still might fall apart.

It is like herding cats, even dealing with one person; dealing with more people involved, makes it that much harder.

IF you did the best you could do, that IS the best you could do.
...sometimes, we are just faced with the painful task of letting it all go in order to preserve our own lives, and those of our own immediate family.

{{HUGS!}}
I pray things get all straightened out well for you! Please keep up posted as to progress, and know we are all here to be supportive no matter what.

Before you do a welfare Check, do everything in your power to get answers from your Sister, give it some time too to get to sit and talk with you and not by the telephone. I have been called on for Social Services and from that point on being thrown under the bus, I will never ever ever talk with my sister or brother again!!!! Mature & best way to handle this is to have a talk by sitting down and not on the telephone. Then figure out a plan which works for all of you, including doctors, meds, visiting, etc. Hope you use Good judgement because if not it will mess up your family FOREVER!!!

If I was in that situation with my sibling (and thank God I'm not!!!) and I was questioning where my money was being spent, I would tell my sibling to send me the bill that needed to be paid and I would pay it. That way there is no question where my part of the money was going.
My thoughts and prayers go out to you, hope it all works out!