How to stop relatives from using Mom's bad memory to manipulate her?

Lynn, this is where it all went t*ts up, if you'll pardon the expression:

"Up till a couple months after she moved in with my husband and I he had always been very fair. As soon as she moved in with me because my sisters son and wife had her there for six months and they couldn't do it anymore he started getting very demanding. He wouldn't pay us for her rent and expenses and was demanding professional invoices and personal info for the 18yr old we had been paying to help around the house and yard for years. When we refused to give him info for a minor and told him that our receipts and hand written list of items we spent our own money were good enough he got REAL sh*tty."

Forgive me, but your receipts and hand written list of items were *not* good enough. If you and your husband were spending your own money on items for your mother and, perfectly reasonably, were claiming the money back, then your cousin needed formal receipts and invoices to refund you. Needed, note, not "felt like making trouble about."

Look at the context. Your sister had already made a hash of things by allowing your mother - of your mother's own free will, that is, I'm not suggesting anything worse - to spend money on your sister and her family. And while that's fine for a mother-daughter thing, it is NOT fine for a POA. Then when your mother moved in with you, without sight of proper accounts, how was your cousin to know that you weren't making the same error? To carry out his responsibility properly, he did indeed need satisfactory details of exactly what money was spent on your mother and what for.

I get how irritating and even humiliating all this can be. My sister has POA for my mother and to begin with it was such a cauldron of conflict. She wanted receipts and itemised accounts of everything, and then there were endless niggles about silly things like my "overtipping" a hairdresser, or including a café bill which she felt should have come out of general household expenses - ugh! I now get everything billed by invoices which I send direct to my sister, and I've set up a separate bank account for my mother's petty cash and send the monthly statement to her too, and so far - touch wood - that's working all right. But it's still a pain in the unmentionables. I do understand.

But sneaky? This isn't sneaky. This is your cousin, having been asked to do a job, trying to do it properly. And to manage your mother's finances conscientiously, he also needs to have full control of what's going on. He is accountable for what happens to your mother's money: how does that work if she's writing cheques to you and nobody is keeping a transparent record of what they're for?

Unfortunately, what you now have is a full-blown dispute about who your mother wishes to have power of attorney for her on both medical and welfare issues; and that dispute is spilling over into terribly sad and emotional areas such as spoiling your mother's birthday - it's a breakdown in communications. The family needs to get together and go back to the drawing board before this all gets totally out of hand. Bite the bullet and call a meeting.

Sorry - financial and welfare issues, I meant to say.

country mouse we did have receipt and used her bank card for everything else so it would be on the statements and there is transparent record.
mom wants me to be poa so no dispute there and we all went to counseling for months and all they did was their slick act and didn't let me speak. So we are done with that. I will be civil and get along for my moms sake. they were welcome at my house anytime until they got in moms face and told her they knew what she wants but they don't have to do it. now they are not. I love my mom and will protect her dignity and her right to make her own decisions till the cows come home. I realize you don't know me but I don't lie steal or cheat and they cant say the same. I would even venture to say they have no moral compass and neither one would want their children doing the same to them but they probably will since they raised them.

I'm sorry, but you can't stop anyone from manipulating your mom. My sis did it and all mom wanted was her children near and visits from them and she wanted to be happy. She got none of it. Sis criticized, lied, stole from mom. Mom passed from negligence on my sis's part. Sis said she was retiring to take care of mom. Mom lived alone, had dementia, hard of hearing and severe other health issues. Doctor specifically stated she wasn't to be left alone - she burnt food while she cooked. Sis emailed everyone that mom is doing fine, her health is good and improving. All a lie. Mom fell down her stairs while taking out the garbage (sis was to do this and where was she). Sis was there when she wanted to be there. She kept mom from some of us with her deceitfulness and lies and that is what is hurting more than anything. Sis raided mom's home less than an hour after her passing in October - took everything she didn't want anyone else to have (incl. her meds, ids, wallet, money, etc). No, you can't control them in any way, they are who they are and won't stop at anything to get what they want. In this world where nothing's still, the people we know are not really real.

Sister in law who hated my parents, all because my Dad would not give them $100,000. My Dad required she pay him back for loan and as a result she threatened my Dad, days before he died, stating if he did not change will, he would be sorry. My dad asked me what she meant. I never dreamed she would kill my parents. She even controlled the hospital after having my brother moved from the Deaf Dept (State) to the Health Dept Adm. She refused to pay our primary caregiver who gave more than she earned. She controlled Elderly Protection, a State agency that wouldn't even respond to our complaint. From her State office she removed some ten withdraws at some $10,000 or 9,999 each, when she didn't even sign on the Chase bank account. Lawyers we paid just helped her steal the money. They lied to the judge, and took my parents hard earned money. One of the big lawyers in our town told me both of his neighbors were doing the same things. My lawyer's billings had numerous errors.

She can complete a durable power of attorney for both financial and medical if she has not already done so. Also, she can complete her advance directives and living will-this will be her voice for medical care if she becomes unable to speak. If mom is living with you in your home, you don't have to let the relative's in, tell them she's napping. Once everything is in place, the way mom wants it, then it doesn't matter what the relatives do or say as long as it doesn't upset your mom or cause some kind of harm. I've seen POA's written up to say it can't be evoked and/or it will remain in effect/kick in when the person becomes unable to make decisions. At her age, she may be eligible for a legal consult. Contact your local area agency on aging and ask them for a legal consult for a power of attorney. This way whoever she names, will be able to assist her in bill paying and managing her funds.

Having filed for guardianship, I would advise against it. We have been in court for 14 months, and it is far from over. Six lawyers, all together, and the case is being drug out by two of them, for profit. By the time this is over, my dad won't have anything left. The case is in IL, and they have what is called a Mental Health POA, which would stop anyone else from taking over a POA, if you can get it at this point. Once declared incompetent, the state is totally in control of both you and your mother. If there is a contested guardianship, the state will also take over her finances. My attorney is advertised as an Elder Law and Elder Abuse attorney, but he has been much more abusive than helpful. My dad needs to be in assisted living, but because of this contested guardianship, his funds are in limbo until the court case is over. As guardian of his person, I am responsible for his care and housing, but the state is responsible for the money, and they can't find the time to answer phone calls. It is extremely expensive and frustrating. So far, legal fees are over $25,000, and there are a lot of "probate sharks" out there, so I would advise finding an attorney who can offer a different solution. If your sister is talking your mom out of money, there are laws against financial abuse of seniors, if you find an honest attorney. Good luck!

This is such a difficult and insidious problem faced by some unfortunate families like my own. In my case, I live out of state from the rest of my family so have little to no influence or control over any aspect of our mom's medical or financial welfare. My mom has given total control over to my lying, manipulative younger sister, who has finagled about $200k out of her so far, using undue influence, since my dad passed away about 8 yrs ago. So even though I am aware that my sister is exploiting our mom, I feel there is very little I can do to stop it. My brothers are useful idiots and fail to see what is happening before their eyes. I would get APS involved, but it would cause more problems than it would solve, I fear. My mom would be terribly upset and it would totally shatter her sense of stability. She would see it as an attack against her and her favorite child, who she blindly trusts and believes cares about her, not as a protective or corrective measure with her best interest in mind. I almost wish my mom had no money or assets, then there would be nothing for my sister to exploit. I just wish my mom would be up-front with all of her adult children and let us know openly what her wishes are as far as her estate goes. As far as we know she wants us to all share equally, but she has secretly given our sister a quite a chunk of money that we are aware of. So we are getting mixed signals, and also since our greedy, deceitful sister has total control and access to her bank accounts, documents, etc. I suspect that she has had our mom unwittingly name her as sole beneficiary on about $500k worth of annuities, and as POD on her bank accounts. This would mean that those assets would belong 100% to my sister once our mom passes away, even if the will states everything is to be shared equally among the siblings. I dread the time after her death when my vindictive and greedy sister can say "mom didn't want you to have anything" (this would be a huge victory for her since she has always been jealous of me) and my mom won't be around to speak for herself. My sister has always viewed my mom as her personal ATM machine, and it appears she has targeted her as her "retirement plan" as well. I have come to accept it since I feel that my hands are tied. She is not directly hurting our mom, and her stealing our eventual inheritance doesn't directly hurt our mom, since she will be gone before what has been done is revealed. It is just so painful to have to watch it all taking place and feel helpless to do anything to stop it.

I'm going through the exact same thing. A cousin and sister. I went to court had a lawyer prove my mom was competent so I could take her out of the nursing home they put her in. She know lives with me. I have poa and health care proxy. I understand the frustration. Listening to my mom talking to my sister. I agree try to keep visits supervised. My question to any one my cousins is on her irrevocable family trust. Not a lot of money left. She refused to send it to me. And says she doesn't have to give me any information about it?? Shouldn't my mom get an annual report if funds??

Your mother and any beneficiaries are entitled to a yearly accounting of your mother's trust, at least in some states. Is your cousin the Trustee/Admin?

I guess it would be trustee. I will have to read it again. My uncle took over as trustee when I told him my sister had moved money to another bank. I found this out at the bank. He was fair when he passed. He had my cousins take over. Big mistake. She has buddies up with my sister. Thank you. I will look into getting a report. Can you go back a few years? Bank accounts closed and life ins policies have been cashed out. This was done by my sister. When she had poa. Any way to get answers to this?

Someone wrote earlier that they were amazed at how much of this stuff goes on. I think a lot of it is caused because, what I've seen personally, is people 80+ often times don't want to have signed documents which pertain to their care directive, a living will, their final wishes (death, services, burial), even wills. Even telling my parents it is to assure things are carried out how they wish and to prevent misunderstandings or squables among their children...they still didn't/haven't responded. Even after my father witnessed disagreements between me and my siblings about my mother's health care, and she has passed, he still has not/will not finalize a living will or advanced care directive. Doesn't even want to talk about it. I don't know if there is a will. My gut feeling is...in general, my father is very indecisive and therefore doesn't want to have to make decisions, so he doesn't. Plus, he really doesn't care if we children argue, after he's out of it or gone.

Perhaps the next generation will think differently, better about putting your wishes in writing. Until then, we can only ask...and deal with the answers or lack of...

waddle1: Your dad's reluctance sounds, in part, like he's afraid to face his own mortality. As people get closer to the end of their lives, death seems scarier. Doing an advanced directive, etc., may seem too final for him and may be frightening to him. So, maybe he thinks that by putting it off and not thinking about it, he doesn't have to think about death or the fact that he doesn't have so many years of life left. Has his dr. discussed an advances directive with him? Even if he doesn't have a will (which sometimes includes the advanced directive along with the POA documents), with the encouragement of his dr(s), he could file an advanced directive at his dr's office. But, you really can't force your dad to have an advanced directive if he doesn't want want. Hopefully, he'll come around, though, so you won't be left having to wonder if the decisions you may be tasked with making are what he really wants. If this becomes the case, you can only take your best guess and do the best you can for him.

Re: comments in this thread about family members being trustees and all of the hassles: One thing I've learned from my parents' trust and them having named individuals as their trustees and there having been big time exploitation involved with their finances and trust funds by unscrupulous people my dad was associated with (not me--- he removed me as his POA and trustee) is that it's better to go with a corporate trustee, preferably one aligned with a financial advising company, because a corporate trustee not only has no personal gain or familiarity/ties with the beneficiaries, but they are also regulated and have to account to those who oversee and regulate them for all of the activities on a trust. A corporate trustee will execute a trust by the book and in accordance with the wishes of the deceased and won't be swayed by manipulative family members who are trying to get more than they were left. Furthermore, while the person is still alive, a corporate trustee is involved in the trust to the extent that any changes to the trust, especially by people in the vulnerable stage of life (but also with people who aren't considered vulnerable), raise red flags and cause them to investigate the reasons behind the change and the validity of it. From what my husband's and my financial adviser told us, there are alot of levels of checking, reporting, and documentation. And, while an estate attorney may allow the changes to a trust to be made, when it involves the money in the trust, itself, the corporate trustee is informed of the change and initiates an investigation into the validity of the changed estate plan and changes in beneficiaries. And, if that corporate trustee is part of the same company where you do your financial advising, they'll be in contact with your financial adviser to raise the red flag with that person since a financial adviser has a fiduciary responsibility to his/her clients to protect the trust funds from unscrupulous people. The financial advising industry is a very closely monitored and regulated field and financial advisers' activities are very closely watched. So, when it comes to trust funds and corporate trustee-ship, it's a very closely watched industry with lots of monitoring of activity on trust funds. After seeing how my dad was financially exploited and also exploited by his so-called "friends" and associates into changing his estate plan and there being nobody to raise red flags and investigate, my husband and I have assigned a corporate trustee, which is another division of the same company as our financial adviser belongs to, as our trustee and the entity which will both execute our trust when we're gone and which will be keeping an eye out for changes made to our trust, especially as we get older. Granted, there's lots of red tape and lots of hoops we'd have to jump through if we made questionable changes to beneficiaries. But, I'll gladly take this red tape if it means protecting our trust funds from unscrupulous people, especially when we enter the vulnerable adult stage of life.

Get a POA and restraining order against those taking advantage if need be. If they live with her, then have them evicted. You will need an attorney. Good Luck! Similar situation happened in my family, but you need that POA to really enforce the issue. It's a real shame that family members can do this sort of thing. If we can't trust our family, who can we trust? Terrible, but I can relate all too well.

when some lawyer tells you that the executor, or trustee has a fiduciary responsibility, bully wooly. That is only if you have an extra 100,000 for the very gender bias lawyer hired who raped the estate and never made a phone call, never got out of his chair. The only thing he did was bill the estate, and he had errors all over the billings, errors to his benefit.