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My fiancé and I moved literally across the country to take care of his father after his wife passed away. We talked to him weekly on the phone prior to moving and he would tell us "I can barely walk", "I can't get to the store", "Nobody ever checks on me" etc and begged us to move here to take care of him. My fiancé felt terrible and we both quit good jobs and gave up everything to move to help him. When we arrived he was walking just fine, and all the relatives who live close told us they called him all the time and saw him in church and he always told them he was doing just fine and didn't need help. We were both devastated after turning our own lives upside down to move here and he didn't really "need" anything he was just not used to being alone. His wife did all the housework, chores, shopping and cooking. He has had controlled diabetes for 40 years and has no other health issues. For the last two years he has been verbally abusive to both of us. My fiancé says that's the way he has always been and blows off these tantrums. The verbal abuse is out of control and quite embarrassing because he seems to enjoy doing it in public more than anywhere. Our 5 year relationship is about to end because I just can't do this anymore. He uses guilt trips on my fiancé on a daily basis to get what he wants. We have caught him multiple times telling his friends that he supports us financially which is completely false. He doesn't pay for anything except the candy he sneaks at the store. If he doesn't like what we are having for dinner, he will call one of the relatives and tell them we didn't make him dinner. He refused to get any exercise and sits at his computer literally all day long playing solitaire or watching tv. He only leaves the house to go to church. If he needs something he will guilt trip us by saying things like "I worked for 40 years, I am done, you are supposed to take care of me now," even though there is no reason other than laziness as to why he can't do anything for himself. My fiancé caters to him because he feels like its his duty and falls right into the guilt trips. I have not gone upstairs in 2 days now after an argument about needing to get milk from the store. I have had the flu for 2 days and he got mad because I didn't want to go to the store to get the milk and asked him to do it. He threw a fit and I just can't deal with him. He is perfectly content that I am in the basement because he can't guilt trip me like he does to his son and now he doesn't have to deal with me. I have been crying for 2 days on top of being sick because I really love my fiancé but I can no longer "take care" of an abusive person who there is nothing wrong with other than laziness. I started packing today with the intention of moving out and leaving my fiancé but it hurts my heart and I don't know what to do.

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Bella67, you are right. Get out. The situation that you are in will suck the life out of you.
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Really your fiancé is the answer to the problem. Has he ever stood up to his dad? Is it possible to go to a session or two of couples counseling? Can the two of you move out into your own apartment so you don't have to deal with the insanity? Is the basement where your living quarters are now? Would you be ok, just living there and not going upstairs and letting your fiancé deal with him? Lots of questions, eh? If you love him and don't feel like you can leave try to find a way that you can protect your own sensibility and not have to deal with bad behavior. I am sure you must have talked to your man about your feelings does he just blow you off? You two could be dealing with this for years to come, so now is the time to get it worked out before you become more angry and resentful . Do it before the wedding as those feelings will only get worse after your commitment.
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I can't stress this enough - see a therapist! Both as a couple and individual.
I am also dealing with caring for my in-laws with a husband that flops on giving them whatever they want and walking away from it whenever he wants. My FIL lives here with me now (I'm literally counting the days till he goes back home).
Im impressed that you've stood your ground. Great for you (I feel like it took forever for me to get there). My therapist pointed out that my FIL was acting like a child. So I started treating him like one. If you can't use your manners I can't do what your asking - I then walk away. I refused to engage him when he's being nasty and mean.
Have you spoken to your fiance about all/ any of this? (My husband takes regular reminders or he falls back to the same behavior.
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Keep packing. Move out. Rent somewhere not too far away, but not on a long-term lease. If fiancé is willing to go to couples therapy, go -- but not while you are living in that intolerable situation. Maybe the relationship can be saved -- it is worth working on since you love him. But it is NOT worth giving up your life for.

If FIL says he worked 40 years, I assume he is in his 60s --? His son's relationship with him will color your marriage (or relationship if you are not planning to marry) for the next 30 years. Are you prepared to face that? Are you hoping to have a family yourself? Can you imagine how that fits into this picture?

You and fiancé made two mistakes already.
1) You uprooted your entire lives and moved to FIL. Why not a two-week visit first, to see for yourself what is needed?
2) Even after you saw that you were tricked into the move you did not take action to protect yourselves. You did not, for example, move into a nearby apartment so you could see FIL on your terms and be available for real emergencies.

Please do not make a third mistake by continuing to accept this unacceptable situation. Fiancé is dismissing your concerns. He is not taking you seriously. He thinks abuse is acceptable. Daddy comes first in his life. Is this really someone worthy of you sacrificing your happiness?

Get out of that house. Try counselling. If you can't come to a greatly improved relationship, move on.
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Jeannegibbs - all excellent points.
Removing yourself from the situation so you can see and think clearly.
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Thank you all for your advice and support. To fill in some questions: "Dad" is 83 years old, they had children late in life (fiancé just turned 41). My fiancé stays level headed during these temper tantrums because he is used to them because its been this way his whole life. For me this is a relatively new experience as I've only know his father for 4 years and my exposure to him had always been for a week at a time over Christmas when we visited together. We sat down together last night and had a very long talk. He feels terrible because his father treats me like this and I told him about my visit to this site yesterday and we read some articles together and are trying to sort things out. We actually found an article about narcissism and we both believe that the symptoms and behavior patterns associated with it are exactly what his life has been like. In fact, he fit all the symptoms perfectly and went well beyond some of the discussed behaviors. We both have seen and heard him just create some wild off the wall stories that never happened that make him look like he was some superior human. (e.g. he claims that when he was a child he was treated like royalty and they had people who came to the house every morning to wash his feet before he got out of bed) Nobody in the entire family knows how this story came about but it is completely untrue but he believes it and tries to convince everyone its true. Whenever we have brought these untruths to light, he always gets extremely defensive and berates anyone who doesn't believe him until they drop the convo or if he knows he is busted he changes the subject.
We are not ready to give up on our relationship but we both agree that we need to figure out how to better deal with him. After reading the narcissism articles we decided that we should speak to someone about how to deal better with someone with this type of problem and definitely do more research. My fiancé is literally one of the nicest and most sincere people I have ever met in my life and it breaks my heart to see his father put him in the middle like this so we are going to work our hardest to ensure our own sanity while we try to find a way to deal with this type of behavior. If anyone has any knowledge of a good site for narcissism please let me know!
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Oh, also forgot to address a couple other things... the house we live in belongs to my fiancé and we have discussed moving out but feel that if we did that "Dad" would retaliate and we worry about the house being safe. I guess I should tell you that whenever Dad has these temper tantrums, things mysteriously go wrong around the house.. e.g. garage door left wide open for who knows how long (anyone could just walk right in the house), huge messes in the kitchen or if he's really mad he will refuse to eat proper meals or try to skip meals all together so that we have to sit there and convince/beg him to eat. All behaviors related to narcissism/attention seeking. **Sigh**
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Ok, so you've diagnosed your FIL. You and your fiancée have read some articles. What now? Does that change the situation you're in?

Get out.

You have no clue what you are in for. We do. Move into an apartment either alone or with your fiancée but move. You are not bound to this man as your fiancée is. There is no reason for you to live in a basement with a fiancée who won't stand up for himself or for you. Of course the FIL's behavior is unacceptable and you won't change it. Nor will your fiancée be able to change it. All you can do is change yourself or your living situation. FIL is going to act the same way he's been acting for decades. It's not for you to dissect his behavior and figure out a way to live with it. You said your fiancée puts up with it because that's how FIL's always been. Think he's going to change now? No.

This could be your life for the next 15 years. Is this what you want for you and your fiancée? Your fiancée may be stuck in his father's web but you are not. This will ruin your life. Don't give up on your relationship. Don't do a "It's him or me" on your finance but get away now while you can. You can live separately from your fiancée and still be together. And why does your fiancée think all of this is acceptable? When he discovered that your FIL got you there on false information why was that ok with your fiancée? Why continue to live there when FIL doesn't need around-the-clock assistance? I hope your fiancée is packing to go with you.

You can support your fiancée without subjecting yourself to this. But if your fiancée is running around doing what his father wants all the time you might have to take time to consider if this is what you want in your life. And don't believe promises and intentions. Don't put any faith in them. Wait to see if things change FIRST before you make any kind of decision. Your FIL sounds horrible but it's not the first time we've read about a selfish, narcissistic, self-centered elder on here. And he's not your father in law. You are not legally bound to him......yet.

Save yourself while you still can.
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GET OUT now. Your FIL is in early to mid dementia and things will only get worse as he continues to hold you both hostage to his demands. You are dealing with the same tantrums as a four-year-old would have . Yes, it is narcissism, control-freak behavior and you need to establish boundaries. Get a job and restore your life.
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Bella, your fiance' has given up control and he needs to get it back. You said the house you've moved to is NOT his father's house, so your fiance' has all the power in my opinion. Start looking for a place where dad can live, either retirement or asst. living or adult foster care, and move him out. Until your fiance' takes back control of this, dad will be happy and content, you will have to leave and your fiance' will be doomed to bowing to his father till the old man dies. TAKE BACK CONTROL. Period.
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Why would your fiancé knowingly quit his job and have you do the same, if he knew all along about his father's behavior? That is the question I would be asking. Narcissists create narcissists. And they create people pleasers.

If your 41 year old fiancé can't stand up for you now, when can he? I would not marry this man unless and until he sought therapy for his father's extremely narcissistic behavior.

And as the other said, "Get out"! At least until your fiancé has dealt with his personal issues with a terrible father. I know of what I speak. My father was very similar to this man and my mother is a narcissist also. They were codependent. Good luck to you.
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I think the answer to palmtrees1's question is pretty simple - because fiance grew up with it he did not realize just how abnormal it really was, plus, now that cognitive dysfunction is settling in on top of it, its much worse. Narcissists don't necessarily create narcissists, as lots of posters on here have shown as the post about their situation dealing honsetly and generously with their narcissistic loved ones. I can understand that neither poster nor her fiance' really want to leave this guy to his own devices, and realistically, he probably shouldn't be living independently and absolutely should not be the one "in charge" even though its his house. Taking charge is not going to be pretty, and its going to be at least as hard for fiance' as it is for everyone else who has had to "reverse roles" with a parent.
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You'd better leave now, go back where you came from and stay with friends, whomever. Your fiancé sounds like he has a record of placating, he will do this to you and you will end up older, and washing someone's feet in the bargain. Go and go now, it is up to your fiancé to work it out, not you, and if you are gone he'll do it sooner than later.
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What I was trying to say and said badly is that HEY - this fiance' was willing to talk about it, willing to get counseling to boot! He didn't just cut and run and say "my dad, my way, I can't do anything differently, tough luck"' as a lot of less perceptive children of narcissists might have done. That might be a foundation for a relationship that's as good as gold in the long run. She may not want to just cut and run either if they can immediately pull together and start changing the things that need to be changed.
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Vstefans, Actually narcissists do create narcissists, just not all of the time. They also create people pleasers (the opposite of narcissists). This is all due to dysfunctional family dynamics. And yes, children do not see the dysfunction but adults do. Many on this site are not the narcissists but the scapegoats and people pleasers. That is why they are asking questions.
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Palmtrees I think that's exactly right and much clearer than what I stumbled through saying! I know when I was growing up, it took me many years and many experiences in the world outside my home to realize that my mom's ways of being hypercritical and controlling/isolating were not normal, good ways - that I was not just an unspeakably bad child/bad person and deserving of all the shame that was heaped on my head. The message I internalized was that who I really was, was unworthy, and all my real feelings not to mention any weaknesses or imperfections had to be carefully hidden and denied. And anything resembling an expression of confidence in oneself was always utterly and absolutely forbidden.

No one typically is in a position to come out and TELL an emotionally abused child that their parent's perspective is skewed. That's how we grow up thinking we are the problem and our parents are the normal ones.
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This is a pretty good site for support dealing with this type of person. They have a free newsletter as well.

Hope this helps you get the information you need. Scroll down on the right hand side of the page for many blog posts on the topic.
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I kinda have to wonder about narcissists creating more as my fiancé's only other sibling is as bad as "Dad" about being a narcissist. He is worse than "Dad" and he's only 43. My fiancé on the other hand is sensible, honest, caring, intelligent and I could not ask for a better person. We compiled a list of things that had to change (behavior, privacy, yelling, aggression..etc) with examples of each thing and my fiancé sat down with him last night and told him these things need to change because he isn't going to lose me because of his father's behavior. The conversation went well and "Dad" agreed that maybe he could be handling things differently but would not admit he was wrong. We agreed after he talked to his dad that if things do not improve I will be going to stay with his cousin who lives close. Hope this works.
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palmtrees, we never would have thought in a million years that someone would bold faced lie to us for two years over and over again about their health and beg us to move cross country to help him. After hearing the same thing for 2 years we believed him and it hurt both of us to think he was alone and having all these problems, it was not an easy decision for us but one we did out of the goodness of our hearts. We didn't think he would lie about something like that knowing we would see for ourselves if we did move. So when we did move and he was walking, driving, card parties, shopping..etc, we were crushed. It wasn't easy and it wasn't my fiancé's decision alone. We are both very compassionate people and thought we were doing the right thing. It nearly broke us to move financially and spiritually it devastated us. I cried for days. My fiancé just kept apologizing and he still does every single day for moving us here for no reason.
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Bella67, This is common for a real narcissist. They don't care about your feelings. They are what is important.

Mom is the same way. Never been sorry one moment for the hurt and lies. Never been wrong. Never is wrong. Creates her own reality. Just read about the character traits of the narcissist. Your FIL, I hope, will change. If he does, he is not a narcissist. But from what you are saying, I suspect he is very seriously narcissistic.

As the mother of 3 children, I worry about what I can do to help them. I would never in one million years pull something like your future FIL did. He just plain lied. And that is another narcissistic trait. To lie to get his way.

Best thing for you two is to get him help when he needs it and set boundaries. I have with Mom. I gave up on a relationship with her and now I speak to her about every couple of weeks. Keep it light. And when she needs help, my brother will hire some one. When she pisses me off, I stop calling for months. She gets the point but I am sure thinks I am a horrible daughter. Oh well.
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Also, now that I am all cranked up, Mom does the pity party stuff too. One of my aunts called me a few years ago to ask me "anyone" was checking up on mom because mom told her and my other aunt "I could be dead for days and no one would know". Well, all a lie of course. Both of my aunts saw right through her.
Mom too is very healthy, 83, still drives. But to talk to her she will die any moment....please. And no one can ever do enough for her. She has worn me and my brother out. She will not do one thing for herself. Rather have a pity party.

If you go through the traits of a narcissist, mom fits about 80% of them. I am always amazed at the common behavioral traits so many narcissistic people have.

Oh well, I hope your fiancé gets a good grasp on the situation or your future FIL will torment you both until he dies.
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I went through a very, very similar situation, though I was the relative rather than the fiance. I made many mistakes, and some would have been easy to avoid.

Remember these things, if nothing else:

1. This will get worse, not better, unless you set very firm boundaries. Be assertive.
2. Do not engage if he chooses to try to manipulate you, lie to or about you, insult you, or bully you. Walk away, and have a neutral response already prepared like "We can't have a conversation while you talk to me disrespectfully." If all else fails, ignore him when he starts acting abusive. Try to keep him "at arms length" emotionally.
3. Do not offer a response to the whining, or the bragging. This was very hard for me, but what they seem to want is someone to put them in the center of attention. If you do that, you are rewarding their narcissistic behavior, which will only encourage more of the same in the future.

Best of luck with this tough situation.
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Bella67, as someone who didn't grow up in this, you are naive about it. Narcissist do not change, they change tactics. They get more clever. They become specialists in manipulating YOU. But the codependent or people pleaser also does not change without counseling. Your fiancé needs counseling to learn how to put up appropriate boundaries. And it won't be easy. He has a brother just like his father? Put FIL in a home, get counseling, and if fiancé won't, then run. As in away. As someone who grew up in toxic family, the only help for me was a lot of counseling, work, and determination to become healthy. Your fiancé not mentioning this trait of his fathers, running like a dog to be petted, and tolerating this is unacceptable, or it should be. He could have called people, asked for doctor assessments, come out for visit, had his father move out where you both had good jobs, but no, he ran to his fathers side, and in his own home he is allowing his father to be a tyrannical, abusive dictator to both himself and you. And you want this man to raise your children? You should want to think about this carefully. You can chose carefully or carelessly, but some things cannot be changed once effected. Your husband can be divorced. Your children's father, uncle, and grandfather cannot be divorced. And the effects of growing up in a toxic environment can be devastating or can take a lifetime to try to overcome. Please consider carefully.
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Bella first off I would suggest that you have you potential father-in-law evaluated because is actions seem similar to that of my grandfathers who suffered from Picks Disease (a.k.a. Frontal Lobe Dementia) in that his personality shifted to a more childlike egocentric one. But truth be told from the information you have provided he is probably just a self-centered individual who has had it too good for too long and has gendered role stereotypes too ingrained into his system. If it is the latter then I am currently going through something similar with my grandmother, although it is a less severe case. Here is my suggestion for you:
1. Tell your fiancee that your current environment is unhealthy (give him details) and then give your fiancee an ultimatum that he has to choose which is more important to him right now, you a woman who loves him or a father who clearly doesn't need your assistance.
2. If he chooses his father then leave him because that type of environment is toxic and will only lead to you having health issues. If he chooses you then move out and be at least an hour away from his father, get his father a maid (the father will pay for the maids services), suggest that you visit every 2-3 weeks to check on the father (this allows you some down time and also the option of you skipping a visit if required).
3. Again if he choose you take actions to make sure that he does not fall into this type of pattern. He grew up in that environment and kids learn through observation so even though he might be great he might fall into the same pattern as his father. Evenly divide the household chores between the two of you and make sure the are not divide by gender stereotypes Require that he cook supper twice a week, alternate who does that household cleaning and who does the dishes (the rule I have is if you cook then the other person does the dishes).

Bella I hope this helps and that that things work out the way that you want them to.

Good Luck
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Twizard, gives you some very, very good information. Please read and reread their statement. He/She is exactly correct.
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Listen to Twizard. Run. This is a toxic situation.
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Not sure if this book that was recommended by someone on another question would help. Children of the Self Absorbed A Grown-Up's Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents, Second Edition.
Much success to you in figuring out what to do.
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That is a very good book, I read it. Also read Will I Ever Be Good Enough by Karyl McBride, excellent.
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Why can't Dad get an appartment since it is not his home? Or assisted living? Sounds like he might be affected by some dementia or other mental health issues with the stories he is telling.
There is a difference between helping and enabling.
If he will not make any significant changes, you will have to stay out of the relationship, physically and emotionally and just let your fiancee deal with it his own way.
Your fiancee is used to being abused. You are not. Try to give him the courage to be a leader.
For your relationship to work he needs to put you ahead of his father.
Why does he think it is a good thing to enable continuing abusive behavior? As a kid he just gave in to survive, but he's not a kid anymore.
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I hope you are listening, really listening to the advice you are getting on this problem. Come up from the basement and get out of that situation. There are plenty of places which help women in horrible situations. Find one. Get help, but most of all GET OUT of there!
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