My father is 79 and walked into a dealership to purchase a truck on a Wed. Thursday was thanksgiving so Friday he goes back with a $20,000 check in hand and drives off with a brand new Ford f-150. My father has dementia, blind in one eye and almost bind in the other. He walks with a walker and is dialysised 3 days a week. He has recently separated from his wife of 54 years. He suffers from depression and insomnia. My father hasn't driven in 3 years and has not been insured in the same amount of time. He lives in a retirement/assisted living facility. The money he "had", was to cover his rent, dialysis treatment and basic needs however, since withdrawing this money he only has a few thousand $'s left. My father did not test drive the truck but instead they had him sign the paperwork, insure him AND get him insured before leaving the lot. My father got confused and lost and ended up crashing the truck 1.5 hours away from where he lives. It took the hospital where he was taken almost 3 hours to find contact me by using our local sheriffs office. Imagine my surprise when the sheriff comes to my door at 230 am in the morning stating my father his been in an accident with his truck. After my initial shock, reality sets in and I say wait you have the wrong guy my dad doesn't even have a truck!! Of course they confirmed for me that it was in fact my dad and that he had purchased the truck earlier in the day. My dad is okay but the issue is with the dealership. Upon returning the truck I agree to pay for any damages which they assess to be about $4,000. Once I agree to that easily they come back with you will have to pay the depreciation value of the truck. Now wait a minute...you guys should have never sold him the truck based of off his physical and mental state. They told me that they can't refuse to sell to "old people"! I explained to him his mental health issues, what this would do to him financially (homeless and unable to afford dialysis) and their response was you should have had his license suspended. Since he had a valid drivers license and a check we did nothing wrong. I am so out of my league and now they have the money and the truck!!! What do I do? What can I do? The paperwork has his wrong address on it and 2 of the documents look forged. I have spoken to the Sales Mgr, the finance mgr and the general mgr of said dealership....and each has lied on so many levels but the one thing they all said the same was...Kick rocks and pound sand lady. Oh and they had him sign a letter of Arbitration which I have never seen before when purchasing a vehicle. Help any and all advise is welcome.
Years ago I was dropping my daughter off at preschool. I had an old lady back into me in a parking lot without ever looking in the rearview mirror, then try to run. I called the police and wrote down her license number.
When the police came she lied to the police. She was driving her daughter’s car and the insurance did pay for the damages to my car. I never saw her at the school again. Her daughter did not allow her to drive after that to bring her grandchild to school.
I understand that people have accidents but she made me angry when she lied to the police saying the accident was my fault. Then she said that she tried to run because she had something baking in the oven.
Also, and I know this is much easier to write than do, but tighten everything up, way up. You have a problem, which you know, that you have to deal with.
Also, I feel for you. Managing parents is crazy hard. My father did something a little bit dumb, which was fine, but how he handled the fix, and that he got into the problem scares me. And I have no idea how to get him to change, and listen to me, he, simply, won't, do, it.
Good luck with everything. There is a silver lining here, he only damaged the truck, and his finances, he could have done this during the day with far more serious consequences.
Contact an attorney to find out if there's anything that can be done, but first and foremost, move your dad to a memory care facility TODAY. He's not being served well in assisted living if he's free to come and go as he pleases with his mental state.
No test drive, the dealership got him to sign paperwork, insure him and get him insured before leaving the lot. Sounds like they knew he was incapacitated whether they admit it or not.
You're lucky your father wasn't killed or killed anyone else (and that dealership will count themselves lucky, too!)
Call an attorney! ASAP You can also search online 'elder legal assistance program,' to see any in your area who may be able to help or refer you. It doesn't cost to get an initial consult and/or referral. Don't tell the dealership or your elderly father, who may repeat that to the wrong person/s. If no attorney will help, call your local TV Consumer Help lines.
*Take your father's driver's license! If he says anything about it missing, just say you don't know, but will help look for it later. Call the DMV to ask how to get an ID for him. If you have to take father there, tell him his license expired (or was lost) and you're taking him to get it renewed, but you just get him the ID Only.
As someone said, what if the situation was reversed & the dealership refused to sell him a car because of his age? Then the dealer would be sued for age discrimination.
You can’t assume just because someone is almost 80 y/o that they are “incapacitated “.
It’s not the dealer’s fault, jmho.
"Her dad is in AL with dementia so she needs to go after the facility (especially if he is in memory care)"
and
"The OP needs to go after the facility that let her father wander off."
OP's original post said:
"He lives in a retirement/assisted living facility." (Note also the profile says independent living.)
AL does NOT monitor the comings/goings of residents. This is one argument I had with my YB - he insisted mom would prefer AL. I said mom needed MC and there would be no one to stop her from walking out the door.
Either OP's profile is older when it refers to independent living, OR OP meant semi-independent. AL ASSISTS people with some of their needs, but it is NOT locked down and you can come/go when you please. If this was a MC unit, which is usually locked down, he wouldn't have been able to do this.
Clearly this is a case of the father's dementia/capabilities now beyond being "independent." OP needs to take control of finances and perhaps consider moving father to MC. The facility, assuming it is just AL, has NO responsibility in this matter. As for needing the money for his "rent", have a chat with the admin and see if arrangements can be worked out until you can sell the damn truck.
I also don't see holding the dealership responsible as being the best way to handle this. I am NOT a fan of ANY car dealerships - I DETEST buying a car because of them. However, bringing this issue to social media or the local news might likely backfire as well, because the tables could be turned to blame OP for not managing his affairs. If this is the route taken, be prepared for the backlash.
If the insurance they "procured" for him didn't include collision or the deductible is really that high, it might be best to suck it up and get it fixed elsewhere (most likely will be less expensive than having the dealer fix it) AND then sell it privately. The dealership will overcharge for everything and undercut the price offered.
Anyone else dealing with early dementia beware - this is just like raising kids, you never know when babies will roll over (potential falls), start walking, climbing, etc. There is no timeline for babies/toddlers and there are none for dementia. You *must* try to be one step ahead at all times to avert disasters! With dementia, one day that person with some short term memory issues, but seemingly still "with it" suddenly reverts back to their former self of years ago and does something like this man did! Thankfully no one was hurt, so this is a nasty expensive learning experience.
(example: Mom begged YB for 9 months to take her back to her condo after we moved her to MC. NINE months. Suddenly and magically at that point, she asked me to drop her off at her mother's on my way home. ???? Her mother passed away 40+ years ago! She also asked if I had a key to their former address, sold over 25 years before! So, the condo was forgotten and hasn't been mentioned since. Most recently she asked about her younger sister, who is also gone, for many years. Then she stated that her sister must be tied up with "that baby." She has to be referring to my cousin's youngest, her sister's granddaughter, totally disabled from day 1, but she, aka the "baby", must be close to 40 yo now!!! Some baby!)
To deal with the immediate problem, contact a lawyer. I know you think the dealership is supposed to do the "right thing" where your FIL is concerned and investigate whether he should really be buying this truck, but you all know he has dementia and physically disabled and are still allowing him to manage things he shouldn't be.
Time for tough love. I wish you well.
They had the responsibility to ensure that the insurance was active if they set it up, it sounds like that is not the case.
My dad couldn’t drive. He didn’t have dementia but after his heart surgery he had a stroke. Mom knew to remove the keys and tell him that his driving days were over.
One day, my dad was a bit down. He was depressed about no longer feeling like a man as he put it.
He only wanted to just sit behind the wheel again and turn the ignition on to hear the engine running for just a second. My mom’s first instinct was no. She told him that the doctor would not allow him to drive.
She looked at his sad face and felt sorry for him. She asked him to promise to do just as he said, only sit behind the wheel and hear the engine, he was not to put the car in reverse and back up even in the driveway.
She asked him to promise knowing that he was a man of his word. He promised. He did exactly as he said and never asked for the keys ever again. I suppose it was his last hurrah in the car.
Afterwards, mom told me that she was so foolish to take that chance because he could have backed up into the street. She said she was thankful to God that he hadn’t been tempted to drive. She said she wouldn’t do it again and let him have the keys. I had enormous compassion for because I knew how much she loved my father.
I had torn feelings. I adored her for allowing my father to feel like a man, completely trust him, unconditionally love him and understand his need to be behind the wheel himself just to reminisce about his driving days. I found it terribly sweet and respectful to him.
The other side felt exactly as she did, “What if he had backed up and entered the street?” I told her that I saw both sides, just as she did.
OP’s daughter knew nothing about her dad even wanting to drive. The utter shock of police at the door about her dad must have been confusing and terrifying. Sad situation.
I suppose my dad could have been driving too after he no longer drove but I feel the responsibility of an accident in his case would have fallen in my mom’s lap for handing over the keys even though she only wanted to show him love. She ended up giving the car to my younger brother.
I bet the OP feels guilty that she allowed him to have access to money now but how could she have ever known her dad would go buy a car! These things come out of the blue and I guess it’s a lesson for all of us that anything is possible.
If your father was manifestly not in his right mind and obviously not fit to drive, how did it come about that he was left unsupervised and able to conduct this negotiation over two days with the dealership?
And if he was apparently in control of his own affairs, on what grounds should the dealership have refused to serve him?
I have a feeling you were unwise to turn down their offer to buy back the truck, because I think you may find that they were under no obligation to do so. Is it too late to go back to them? Taking the smaller loss and being grateful it was no worse, and especially that nobody got hurt, might be the least painful option in the end.
I think I'd have more questions about what was going on at the ALF. Your father is of course not a prisoner, he is free to come and go and to please himself, but at the same time it is an Assisted Living facility, and the assistance should include monitoring his welfare to some extent. It seems unlikely that he would have kept this planned purchase entirely to himself - didn't any alarm bells go off?
No one has said explained how this person who is so bad off physically and mentally managed to go to the dealership and negotiate a sale over two days and manage to write a check to complete the transaction. Why would it be the responsibility of the dealership to assess his mental state?
Sadly no one is to blame except the elder in this situation. If he was so bad off he should not have had access to his checking account. He should not have been allowed to go out alone. You can't blame the dealership for that. Someone dropped the ball but it wasn't the people he bought a car from.
That said, many years ago a dealership refused to fix a poor quality issue on a new car I bought. I contacted the
the main car company. In your case it would be Ford. Explain the situation, every detail. They do not want bad PR. They might possibly pressure the dealership to do the right thing. In my case, I got a personal call and apology, along with a quick fix.
I wish you the best and hope all turns out in your favor.
Their slogan was, “Your great grandfather bought his bicycle here.” It was a very expensive, brand name bike for my birthday. I was a very active teenager.
The gears were broken from day one! I wasn’t a casual cyclist. I rode miles and miles and miles on a daily basis. So I was very frustrated!
My mom politely asked that they either repair my bike or replace it. They said, “No problem. We will have our mechanic repair it.”
My mom wasn’t stupid. She asked me to go for a ride on my bike before we left the store. I didn’t even get a block from the store when the gears went wacky again. The bike was a lemon or they had a poor mechanic.
I went back in the store and my mom asked me if my bike was fixed. I said, “”No, I can’t ride this bike. It’s broken.” They told mom that they were sorry and would be sure to fix it. My mom gave them a second chance.
We went back to pick up my bicycle. She told me to go take it for a spin. I did. It was still broken! I got back and mom said, “Well, is it fixed?”
When I told her no, you should have seen mom go into action! She politely asked for a refund. They said they would not refund her money.
Mom said, “I gave you two chances. You don’t get a third! I want my money now! If I don’t get it I will use your phone to call the Better Business Bureau and make a complaint on your business.
Oh boy, did that get his attention. He tells my mother, “Lady, please keep your voice down. I have customers in the store and you will chase them off.”
Wrong thing to say to my mom! She said, if I don’t get my money back I will tell everyone about your bad customer service! She got her money back.
Then mom said to me. “Come on honey, let’s go buy you a bicycle that works!” We went to a lesser known store with the same brand bicycle and my bike was a dream! It worked perfectly.
I was so proud of my mom that day. She didn’t let them push her around. So yeah, sometimes in certain situations we have to speak up.
Sometimes they are nice about it. Sometimes they aren’t. Sometimes the customer is right. Sometimes the business is right.
It doesn’t hurt to ask for a refund. The OP can try. People in sales are going to sell. That is their bread and butter.
Legally they were entitled to sell him a car. Is it a shame what happened? Sure it is. Not sure if there will be a positive outcome for the OP or not. It all depends.
Knowing your legal rights will be key in how you push back on the ethics as well and the way you decide to go in your approach to the dealership. Take the higher ground rather than letting them bully you because they will certainly try to do that (already have) and they are skilled at it, right or wrong. It probably wasn't even malicious to begin with when they sold the truck to your dad. Likely it was a salesperson who was under pressure to make sales (end of month and year and holiday time), works on commission and trained not to look a gift horse in the mouth, your dad was an easy sale why question it. Many big mass sale dealerships work this way (or at least used to), staffed by young less experienced sales people who just don't have the life experience to know better and then management does the clean up on those deals that go a bit sideways, like your dad's. Stonewalling, pressure, intimidation is their upper hand so don't let them take it. Maybe there wont be any legal recourse but negative publicity well that's another story given the ethical behavior here so you have options just take the time to figure out which ones to use.
You obviously need to address how to prevent this kind of thing with your dad in the future too. Trying to admonish and train him is not likely the answer given his dementia so it might be time to figure out other ways to curtail his urges. Maybe the AL facility should be on notice about letting him take public transportation if that's how he got to the dealer? The simple fact he couldn't find his way home indicates a danger to address and they should be well versed in the options for keeping him safe.
In reality, though, I think this could possibly work out in your favor. If your father truly did drive off in a brand new F-150 for $20k, he got a deal! According to KBB, a new 2019 F-150 bare-bones model with zero options would have a Fair Market Price of about $28k. My guess is, though, that the dealership sold the truck as used (I bought mine used with <4k miles on it), so you should not have to pay the depreciation they claim you do.
I know it's a hassle, but the best thing to do might be to get the truck repaired. Assuming the dealership didn't just sell your dad liability insurance (minimum required in most states), pay the deductible and get it repaired. If the insurance does not include collision coverage, then you'd have to pay the full $4k to get it repaired. Even with the additional $4k, you may still be able to sell it for $24k and come out even.
It seems to me that you just want this to go away and get most or all of your dad's money back. If that's the case, I'd get the truck repaired and negotiate with the dealership or try to sell it on the open market. You'll always get more selling to a private party, but it takes more work on your part.
If you want to start a crusade against the dealership, then keep in mind that it'll likely end up taking more of your time and money than is probably worth the effort.
My concern is why are YOU expected to cover the damages? You indicated they procured insurance for him/the truck. Is the deductible that high? If it is, perhaps you can find another shop who can fix it for less (dealers are notoriously more expensive to get repairs, etc done.)
Once fixed, sell it yourself, without returning it to them. Very often you can get a better price with private sale (they generally offer a LOT less than the value of the car, so they can make it salable and cover their costs plus make a profit.) If nothing else, it takes these scum out of the picture.
Meanwhile, you'll have to figure out how to cover his expenses until you sell it. Even at a loss, you can likely recoup a lot of the cost. I would highly recommend you find a way to take over his finances as well. If you have DPOA, NOW is the time to put it into action! If you don't have it, he *might* still be able to grant it - depends on what EC atty decides when talking with him privately. Otherwise, you'll have to pursue guardianship (more expense you don't need.)
At the least, you CAN apply to be rep payee of his SS - that would take his access to it out of the picture. If you do this, call a local office, not the main SS number. Others have said this is difficult, but it was actually the easiest part of taking over my mother's finances! I brought a lot of paperwork to show them, including how I was managing everything else already, but they never looked at any of it. They asked questions, sent notice to her and me, and then just had to wait for approval (they DO check your background!) Other than my time and gas/parking, it didn't cost me a dime.
What happened with your dad is appalling and unethical. For a few bucks the car dealership recklessly endangered countless lives.
You've had many sage answers and I can't add to them, other than to say, absolutely go to the press and social media and get as much coverage as possible.
Many businesses are scared sh**less of a bad Yelp review.
I wish you strength in navigating this ordeal.
R27
For everyone that worries about baby boomers making our streets unsafe, I live in a snowbird city and texters have been the cause of increased accidents, not our yearly influx of retirees. It is ability not age that should be considered, remember, we are all getting old if we are lucky. Becareful what you wish for, you may just get it.
The auto dealers have dealt with many people many times; are very experienced. They can spot a mark instantly. They know just how to take advantage. They do. In this case they did. Every car dealership in the U. S. of A. should, by federal law, have a big giant sign that says, “We are Crooked as a Dogs’ Hind Leg.”
How are they going to know he is blind in one eye? How do they know I have had cataract surgery? There is no way they can know that.
With even minimal critical thinking skills, I have to consider that the dealership knew exactly what was going on: he is virtually blind, has difficulty walking even with the walker, not clear on his address, hadn’t driven in years. If they were completely unaware of his functional status then why didn’t they take him for a test drive? Why were 2 forms forged? And why did they decide to have him sign an arbitration agreement before he left? Sure all this can be explained away but it warrants further investigation. No one is suggesting that the dealership refuse to sell him a vehicle so that argument is simple minded BS. What they should have done is go a little bit above and beyond in ensuring this man’s safety instead of just covering their legal liabilities.
At what point in time did it become more admirable for a business to make profit than it does for them to do the right thing?
This adult child's best bet is to get politicians and the media on board with shaming this dealership into eating the loss.