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Your question seems simple and straightforward BUT much is left out and makes it difficult to give you a simple answer. The ramifications of your actions might change with the level of liability you accepted when you took on the POA responsibility. The only clue we have is TiredGranny. Yep. Me too. I would be happy to no longer be the POA for my LO. For that reason I would want to be very careful of my actions. Most likely the job has grown in difficulty and complexity over the years. Mine has.
So the records belong to the principal, right? If this happened to me, I would keep a copy of the records to protect myself. Especially if the circumstances were hostile or if I assumed I would have to step back in at some point and would need the records to manage the circumstances. I am assuming here you are both medical and financial POA?
Only the principal can change the POA and they must be competent to do so. So any records I had I would turn over to the principal with perhaps a video and/or signed receipt that they had been returned. If the principal is not competent. I might not turn the records over and I might be in need of an attorney at that point. As the previous POA you would probably know best if the principal is considered competent. If they are not competent to make the change, then I would want to make sure of my own status. Regardless, you don’t represent the new POA agent, you represent the principal.
If the new agent is hostile and your principal is incompetent then I might feel it my continued responsibility to protect the principal from the encroachment of the new agent into the principals private affairs. I would seek legal advice.
Regardless, the new POA agent would need to submit their own POA document wherever they needed to use it. If yours has been voided then any introduction would be a formality and a courtesy, not part of a prior POAs legal responsibility. More the responsibility of the principal to advise their new agent. Again, my opinion.
All of this would depend on what is written in your own POA and the circumstances that necessitated the change. If you resigned, then perhaps you are all for the change. Usually we want to protect the principal or we wouldn’t take on the POA responsibility in the first place and making it possible for a new POA to do the job should benefit the principal.
There are many circumstances under which POA agents might be changed. Giving more information about the circumstances in your case, might get you more appropriate feedback.
The laws that govern PoA can vary by state, therefore the guidance you get here is based on each individual's experiences in their states and countries, and may not apply to yours.
The process of resigning as a PoA may be different than being replaced as a PoA. I would ask an attorney for the state where the PoA is active or being newly assigned. If you are resigning, at the very least I would put it in writing with an "effective as of" date and maybe even notarized but then not sure who should receive copies.
If someone is simply verbally telling you they are the new PoA, I would demand to see the document. If they refuse to show it then I would go to an elder law attorney and have them send a letter threatening to take them to court to show the document. This may be enough for them to avoid court and just show it to you.
I agree with 97yroldmom that if you are the current PoA who is being replaced and you know that your charge has a medical diagnosis of cognitive impairment in their records, I would not hand over anything until further consultation with a certified elder law attorney.
This is my thought. If the principle is competent then they need to go to the lawyer and revoke your POA and assign someone new. At that point, a letter should be sent to you saying your DPOA has been revoked and a new person assigned. The letter should state how you are to handle any records you have in your possession. If it doesn't, I would call the lawyer and request that he send you instructions on how to proceed. I may turn over the records to him/her. If not him, like suggested to the principle. As 97 pointed out, make copies of those records. And as said, get a receipt. Make up you own and have the person you hand them over to sign.
If the principle has been formally diagnoised with a Dementia or declared incompetent in anyway, they are not able to revoke their DPOA. The only way this can be overrode is by someone receiving guardianship. If you have someone claiming they have DPOA, demand to see the paperwork. Then tell them you need a letter from the lawyer who drew them up revoking your DPOA. I would not except anything that has been printed off the internet. And if I did, then I would ask for a letter from the principle stating that they have revoked your DPOA and the records should be handed over to you. It should be signed in cursive by the Principle so you know it their handwriting.
No, I would say its not the responsibility for the previous DPOA to notify the banks, etc. Its up to the principle to make everyone aware that the previous DPOA is revoked and a new one put in place. If the principle has been declared incompetent and you feel they were coerced into changing the POA then call the lawyer who drew it up and tell him/her that the person was not competent to make the change.
YOU should notify the bank or the new POA can notify the bank. As only a competent adult can do this then that adult is competent to ask for records from the first POA and can then pass to the second. A "legal letter" should be sent by the person changing to all entities banks, bill collectors/payees, and etc. This should include a copy of the letter sent to the current POA telling them their services are not required, and the document that appoints the new POA. If there are a lot of entities this will take time and copies. I would do this with a legal lawyer letter. The old POA has to do nothing. His or her duties are over. He or she should have been supplying all records of payments and bank work ALL ALONG by copies monthly to the COMPETENT person he or she was acting for, so you should have those already. It is on the person conferring this power/duty to notify his or her banks, phone companies, credit card companies and etc. of this change if he is competent. And if not competent cannot make this change ANYWAY. The reason I would have this LEGALLY done is that if the first POA suspects undue influence of a demented elder he may tell the banks that the elder is not competent and may not hand over his duties. The getting of change documents done in attorney office will include exam for competency. Remember, notarization of documents means zero. It only attests that it is the signature of the person signing. Get things done legally so you have professional advice and letterheads and documents IMHO.
Perhaps you should consult an attorney who specializes in elder law if the previous POA is not willingly handing over the papers. The new POA should definitely notify the banks, etc. Most financial institutions have their own POA forms. Also notify Social Security and Medicare about the new POA, so that they will be able to speak on the person's behalf, and the person's doctors where a POA for medical matters is involved.
I have to echo what 97yroldmom said, while seemingly straight forward this is a loaded question depending on your circumstances. While I read it as this being an amicable change it could just as easily be the opposite and the process could vary from simply adding an additional POA (anyone can have multiple POA’s, all three of my moms children have POA) to fully revoking one with the need to make sure all financial and medical institutions involved are made aware of the change and the in between where one resigns because they want to and another is added by the competent principal. In some states at least when the principal isn’t competent the POA can appoint or grant permission to someone to help them, effectively giving them the ability to take over but not surrendering the actual POA.
These things are much easier of course when the principal is competent and the parties are all in agreement. My mothers set up for instance works great for us but isn’t necessarily what I would recommend to most families. A POA for financial things can be appointed with a different MPOA for instance or back ups to the primary POA could be appointed in case one is unable or unwilling to do the job. There are many options and details will vary state to state as Geaton777 points out and consulting with an attorney specializing in the area, maybe even the attorney who drew up the current POA is advisable.
The new POA would do the contacting for business needs because you'd have to show the more recent date on new assignment. As for first POA not giving up records, you could ask (if on good terms with that person), or you might have to ask an atty. Very possible first POA didn't keep records or will say they didn't have much in way of records. Very possible you might be starting from scratch.
Atty for your state probably best route with you making list of specific records of what you want.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
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APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
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If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
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This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Your question seems simple and straightforward BUT much is left out and makes it difficult to give you a simple answer.
The ramifications of your actions might change with the level of liability you accepted when you took on the POA responsibility. The only clue we have is TiredGranny. Yep. Me too. I would be happy to no longer be the POA for my LO. For that reason I would want to be very careful of my actions. Most likely the job has grown in difficulty and complexity over the years. Mine has.
So the records belong to the principal, right? If this happened to me, I would keep a copy of the records to protect myself. Especially if the circumstances were hostile or if I assumed I would have to step back in at some point and would need the records to manage the circumstances. I am assuming here you are both medical and financial POA?
Only the principal can change the POA and they must be competent to do so.
So any records I had I would turn over to the principal with perhaps a video and/or signed receipt that they had been returned.
If the principal is not competent. I might not turn the records over and I might be in need of an attorney at that point.
As the previous POA you would probably know best if the principal is considered competent.
If they are not competent to make the change, then I would want to make sure of my own status. Regardless, you don’t represent the new POA agent, you represent the principal.
If the new agent is hostile and your principal is incompetent then I might feel it my continued responsibility to protect the principal from the encroachment of the new agent into the principals private affairs. I would seek legal advice.
Regardless, the new POA agent would need to submit their own POA document wherever they needed to use it. If yours has been voided then any introduction would be a formality and a courtesy, not part of a prior POAs legal responsibility. More the responsibility of the principal to advise their new agent. Again, my opinion.
All of this would depend on what is written in your own POA and the circumstances that necessitated the change. If you resigned, then perhaps you are all for the change. Usually we want to protect the principal or we wouldn’t take on the POA responsibility in the first place and making it possible for a new POA to do the job should benefit the principal.
There are many circumstances under which POA agents might be changed. Giving more information about the circumstances in your case, might get you more appropriate feedback.
The process of resigning as a PoA may be different than being replaced as a PoA. I would ask an attorney for the state where the PoA is active or being newly assigned. If you are resigning, at the very least I would put it in writing with an "effective as of" date and maybe even notarized but then not sure who should receive copies.
If someone is simply verbally telling you they are the new PoA, I would demand to see the document. If they refuse to show it then I would go to an elder law attorney and have them send a letter threatening to take them to court to show the document. This may be enough for them to avoid court and just show it to you.
I agree with 97yroldmom that if you are the current PoA who is being replaced and you know that your charge has a medical diagnosis of cognitive impairment in their records, I would not hand over anything until further consultation with a certified elder law attorney.
If the principle has been formally diagnoised with a Dementia or declared incompetent in anyway, they are not able to revoke their DPOA. The only way this can be overrode is by someone receiving guardianship. If you have someone claiming they have DPOA, demand to see the paperwork. Then tell them you need a letter from the lawyer who drew them up revoking your DPOA. I would not except anything that has been printed off the internet. And if I did, then I would ask for a letter from the principle stating that they have revoked your DPOA and the records should be handed over to you. It should be signed in cursive by the Principle so you know it their handwriting.
No, I would say its not the responsibility for the previous DPOA to notify the banks, etc. Its up to the principle to make everyone aware that the previous DPOA is revoked and a new one put in place. If the principle has been declared incompetent and you feel they were coerced into changing the POA then call the lawyer who drew it up and tell him/her that the person was not competent to make the change.
It is on the person conferring this power/duty to notify his or her banks, phone companies, credit card companies and etc. of this change if he is competent. And if not competent cannot make this change ANYWAY.
The reason I would have this LEGALLY done is that if the first POA suspects undue influence of a demented elder he may tell the banks that the elder is not competent and may not hand over his duties. The getting of change documents done in attorney office will include exam for competency.
Remember, notarization of documents means zero. It only attests that it is the signature of the person signing. Get things done legally so you have professional advice and letterheads and documents IMHO.
These things are much easier of course when the principal is competent and the parties are all in agreement. My mothers set up for instance works great for us but isn’t necessarily what I would recommend to most families. A POA for financial things can be appointed with a different MPOA for instance or back ups to the primary POA could be appointed in case one is unable or unwilling to do the job. There are many options and details will vary state to state as Geaton777 points out and consulting with an attorney specializing in the area, maybe even the attorney who drew up the current POA is advisable.
Atty for your state probably best route with you making list of specific records of what you want.
Or someone you care for wanting (or threatening) to appoint a new POA?