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I am the only daughter in town with them. My brother lives in AZ and my sister lives in NC. My parents and siblings agree I should be compensated, but parents asking for guidelines.
Does the durable POA state that a salary is to be paid & how much? Compensation should be reasonable. They shouldn’t be paying you $5 an hour nor $50 an hour. Neither figure is reasonable. You can expect to be reimbursed your out of pocket expenses—so if you are paying for gas to drive them, they should reimburse you.
The POA is vague: "Except as waived from time to time, my Attorney will receive reasonable compensation for services and will be reimbursed for all expenses encountered on my behalf."
I keep all receipts for their purchases and have them reimburse me monthly for those items.
The POA is vague: "Except as waived from time to time, my Attorney will receive reasonable compensation for services and will be reimbursed for all expenses encountered on my behalf."
First off, record keeping is very important. Keep a mileage log book in your car and log every trip, including your personal ones. There should be a gov't/tax mileage rate and use that. Parking charges are extra. Also record every single thing you buy for your parents. Yes if you stop for a treat on the way home from the doctor's office record it.
Next keep track of your hours. Record them in a log book or an app. We have an handyman at the cottage. At the beginning of each year I give him a pocket sized Moleskin diary and he records his hours and what he did each day in it. He gives it to me in the beginning of January and I record which of the three properties he worked on and which costs we can expense against rental income.
Contact a couple home support agencies and find out what they charge for similar services. This will be your upper limit, the rate they charge, the lower limit would be the wages they pay their employees to do the job.
Beware that income tax, workers compensation etc may be involved and you will want to talk with an accountant to make sure everything is above board.
Your parents and siblings maybe in for sticker shock when you should them how many hours you are helping and what it will cost them.
Best bet is to see the attorney who did the POA and have a caregiver contract drawn up. That way there is no question in the future about where the money went.
There are Patient Care Managers. Do a "google" search and see what the pay range is for that service. There are also Geriatric Care Managers. I just checked and the cost is different for each with the Geriatric Care Manager making a bit more. Go the mid range figure. Have a contract established detailing what you are going to be doing for that "fee" The contract should have a date that the contract is to be renewed. At that date if you are doing more than you were the fee can be adjusted. time, distance and You should pay taxes on this income so whoever does your parents taxes should send you a statement. Any expenses you have should be able to be deducted. So travel distance, fuel should be able to be deducted.
I think it's a good idea to be compensated and track time. So often on this forum we read about caregivers and family members having resentments over the amount of work or lack of understanding of how much work it is, and this is a wise way to avoid that. Like others below have pointed out it's also an excellent way to make known to all just how much time it takes to do basic things (not even personal stuff like help with hygiene and getting from point A to B). Good luck!
DaughterInTown, I was the in-town sibling, also. When I mentioned compensation, my mother practically yelled at me, "You don't pay family." When she was hospitalized (gallbladder infection) for 17 days, then rehab, then NH, she was beyond being able to take care of her bills (she'd lived "independently" before then). My brother (POA and successor trustee) paid me $20/hour from that point on, and even gave me back-pay.
It became very difficult for me emotionally to do things for her, so the pay made me see it as a job, and it was much easier for me. My brothers weren't participating in her care, and I was. Thanks to my help, she never entered AL (she refused), so I ended up saving everyone money.
Work up a contract outlining the terms, such as hours, pay, requirements, time off and so on.
Here by me in Florida it runs $15-18 an hour, where my mother lived in North Carolina it was $12.50 per and this was through an agency, so a 1099 was issued.
Now I wonder how does the agency make anything when the rate is so low?
I get that, but it still TO you earned, and cant get back once used. If you feel that you need to be paid ( and I get that) it seems reasonable you would be reimbursed YOUR money...
My spouse was paid $ 50 an hour for financial management of his father's affairs (and estate after he passed.) Since the estate attorney was paid in the range of $ 1,000 an hour, spouse's compensation was modest, and agreed to by the attorney and spouse's siblings who didn't want to deal with that. If you turn finances over to an accountant or attorney, you won't be paying $ 20 an hour, I can guarantee that.
And there was a LOT of time needed to manage all the financial issues, pay his bills, balance his checking account monthly, manage all his financial accounts. That was time taken off work (spouse is an engineer with an MBA,) and is not paid $ 20 an hour at his regular job. The time off did impact his job reviews negatively. So that's a possibility. And he spent hours and hours tracking down several missing checks in the thousands of dollars, checks that were taken by my sister in law, who forged FIL signature, to pay her own bills. She was a spendthrift and had no use for any of the family other than when it came to have her hand out. I'm glad this is all done with...it was very stressful for my husband.
My suggestion would be to make sure everyone knows the rate that you and your parents agree, to keep some records of what you are paid and what for, and that your siblings in particular know how it is mounting up. I don’t think that the records have to be quite as detailed as suggested, though the level of detail may be relevant if eventually it has to be justified as ‘spend down’ for Medicaid.
What you do need to do is to make sure that the total bill doesn’t come as a nasty shock that leads to it being questioned and ending up in court or in very bad feelings. A reasonable rate of pay and a lot of time consuming work may build up to a large amount that will affect inheritances and ability to pay for care in a facility, if that is necessary later.
My MIL lived with us for two years and I did the large majority of her care. A year into her living with us, she needed to go on dialysis and was weak from that and her numerous other health issues.
We looked into Visiting Angels for her but decided against the service because of the six hour minimum. The extended family talked about it and I agreed to take time off of work to care for her at the amount that I was paid at my regular job. My bills didn't stop just because she needed more help. I did not charge for the time I did her grocery shopping because I was there anyway but all of the other away-from-home care added up.
After she passed, my SIL saw how much I had been paid and was surprised by the amount (she was on MIL's account but had never bothered to look or ask about it). I had kept good records of every doctor's appt, manicure, hair appt, trip to Walmart, etc. She didn't like it but couldn't argue with it. I also think she didn't realize how much I was doing.
For me, it comes down to the fact that your time is valuable. You are giving up the freedom that your siblings are enjoying and you should be compensated fairly for it.
Thank you for being the voice of reason. 😘 I suggest contacting an eldercare attorney to fi d out the appropriate rate and bookkeeping needed to do it correctly and avoid problems with Medicaid if that is a likely scenario. Your parents should pay for the attorney fee. I am there with you... I spent about 15 hours a week doing POA duties for my parents. It takes a toll and costs me to do so. As I do not need the mo ey, I do not charge. But I will charge the estate to be the executor. And I put an executor fee in my trust so there will be no question as to my executor getting paid for a time consuming task.
My mother’s attorney suggested $15/hr. He also said to make a list of everything that I do and keep track of the hours😊😊 There is an estimator o line that lets you chose the state and comes up with a figure
I think the right answer is going to be dependent on your location. $15 an hour on the east coast is what we pay a teenager to babysit- so basically eat snacks and watch TV. The tasks done by someone caring for an elderly person would command more. Even $25 an hour would get you only companion care for an elderly person and would come with a four hour daily minimum. It wouldn't compensate anyone for bill paying or medication and medical care management.
Whatever the compensation, keep in mind these are parents that are aging and if their funds get depleted there will be out of pocket for you and your siblings down the road.
I am glad your family agrees that you should be compensated. When I was still working i averaged 25 hours of caregiving for my mother on top of a full time job. That only increased with time until I had to retire eary. Do make sure you have a contract just in case your parent need to apply for Medicaide and so sibs continue to support you. Keep records. Consider also that you need pay taxes, etc.
Your parents can pay you for the time you give in taking care of them (shoot, they can give you any money they want -- it's their money!). However, should they ever need Medicaid, that money will be interpreted as a gift and your parent(s) will be penalized from receiving Medicaid benefits for total amount of gift money they gave.
I just wrote so.much and realized POA is power.of atty. Not health care, home care.or companion. POA is for their money, ie. BIlls, food shopping, paying any health care assistants. POA is not a job that u need to get paid for. They trusted u. And a whole different animal. now if you were their PCA, CNA, HHA and Depending on their needs and your responsibilities, that's first and foremost. Are you trained HHA? What are their needs? Are you trained to address those needs? Very important for their health, safety, and yours as well. ok there is a lot to say here. MOST IMPORTANT their NEEDS? POA is not a health care proxy, not a caregiver unless specifically designated in the document. If parents have medicaid, Medicaid will pay you. They have a program. IF Medicare, check their ins. co. New policies as of 2020 and certified home care is covered with someone companies. And if they do pay you out of POCKET, you could be responsible for income TAXES, and receive a 1099(I think) Form. Do you work? Live at home? If at their home room and board should be payment enough and parents help with any minimal bills you might have. they cover electric gas heat mortgage rent etc etc. Many factors. I took leave of absence for almost 3 years and Medicare doesn't compensate family members. I wouldn't take payment ever but thats me. Am now trying to exist without my mom, emotionally, but again there are so many factors as I mentioned some but the average is $10.00-$15.00 for a caregiver or personal companion on the books but another aspect is the state you are in. and again that is for a caregiver not a.POA. And you can also get training. most HHA agencies have free training to certify you. In NY they do.There are also resources from any State Dept. of Aging you can look into to help you and your parents out. I wish the best health and situation to you and your parents. Check with the attorney who wrote up the POA. SOrry for being all over. My thoughts are faster than I can type.
I think there are guidelines for POA to insure they don't "self serve". I think DaughterinTown is looking for guidance on how to pay herself given the fact that she is also tasked with responsibly handling her parents' finances in a way that serves them only.
A care contract and good records of the services provided is the answer. The amount she should be paid should correspond with local rates for the service provided.
My sister is POA for Dad now, Mom is gone. She was only taking a hundred off of him Monthly to Save on his Savings. Now takes Nothing, In fact, She and her Husband Buy as a Try. Talk it over with Them, Whatever is Afforable and Fair and Square. This is Family.
I read most of your answers and most of us are, or sadly, were, caregivers, HHA, etc and not POA or just POA. Very different things. MY mom just left and I just want to say to you all that you are very special people and you are in my heart and thoughts.
Did they ask you to pay them for the same services when you were young? Then why should you want paid for the same services now that they are old? It is not about you & what you can get from them. It is the cycle of life. The child (you), are now the parent & your mom & dad are now becoming the children in their needs for these services. Except it gracefully without money or expectations. Yes, it is not easy, but just remember... They gave you their love & support... now it is your turn.
Shameful that you should be paid anything from your parents for being a POA over their finances, You aren't a caregiver !! I have been a POA over my parents finances, special meals, overseeing their at home care aids and I shop for them BUT I WOULD never expect then to pay me.. Sound like your siblings and you think you should be compensated? sounds more like you and you siblings are taking their finances ..
Good answer brtrains! I have also been doing all the POA and other mentioned task for ten years. I fly from Chicago to Scottsdale, AZ to do it too! What happened to doing things out of love? Our parents didn't ask for compensation to raise us or to pay back all the money we cost them. Wow is all I can say. Other cultures revere the elderly and argue over who gets to have the parent live with them. The siblings agreeing you should be compensated is so they don't have a guilty cconscience. Reality check time.
Speak for yourself. My mother constantly threw in my face that she provided me with food (mind you she had plenty of money), so starting at 12 I worked, stopped eating her food, wore the same thing everyday until I could afford new etc. Now she expects me to continue to be her free slave as I was my whole life (so that I have no family of my own or friends). Game over.
You may want to consider sending them a monthly account of expenditures including hours worked and amount paid showing actual cost of your parents care. Let them know that you just want them to be aware of where parents money is being used and what the monthly cost really are. This figure will not be as shocking as the total cost of the parents care after they pass. Then if they have an concerns or questions about the cost of their care, you can address it immediately and discuss with them options as to who will care for the parent, the cost of that care vs a facility doing the care etc. This will also allow them to see in writing all that you as the care taker are providing for your parents care and the financial cost and what is costing you in personal time. Many do not understand the personal sacrifices it takes to be a caregiver.
I have found that people have very strong feelings about whether or not children should be paid for taking care of parents disabled by diseases in old age. Evidenced by the answers here😀. Old age happens. Diseases make it harder on everyone. If parents have planned for retirement, I believe it’s in the best interest of everyone for people to be compensated for their time. Obviously your parents had the foresight to recognize this, and your siblings are in agreement, which is fantastic for you. Administration of accounts would pay less, around $15/ hr, and actual caregiving would pay more, the going rate around $25/hour. Unless there’s an abundance of wealth, I would either be paid hourly, or take mileage. Depending on the situation you/your parents estate could report the income/expense or not. My sister and I are caregivers for our mom (and I was for my dad until moving him to SCF) but my brother (out of town and clueless to the situations) felt we should care for parents out of the kindness of our heart. This while he sits at his highly compensated desk job. I lost countless paid from an hourly job, which I ended up having to quit, and from tending to my own business caring for parents that honestly never did a whole hell of a lot for me. For a short period of time, yes, it’s ok to help out, but for an indefinite period of time, caregiving is hard, and usually only gets harder and more frustrating. My mother is abusive and always has been. I won’t be shamed into thinking I’m not worthy of compensation and neither should you if your family is agreeable to it! I would say just keep it fair to what kind of job you are doing for them. best wishes.
You are very fortunate that your siblings agree that you should be compensated and that your parents want to and can do this. Decide what you need and what they can pay. See an elder attorney to get this set up properly.
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I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
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"Except as waived from time to time, my Attorney will receive reasonable compensation for services and will be reimbursed for all expenses encountered on my behalf."
I keep all receipts for their purchases and have them reimburse me monthly for those items.
"Except as waived from time to time, my Attorney will receive reasonable compensation for services and will be reimbursed for all expenses encountered on my behalf."
Next keep track of your hours. Record them in a log book or an app. We have an handyman at the cottage. At the beginning of each year I give him a pocket sized Moleskin diary and he records his hours and what he did each day in it. He gives it to me in the beginning of January and I record which of the three properties he worked on and which costs we can expense against rental income.
Contact a couple home support agencies and find out what they charge for similar services. This will be your upper limit, the rate they charge, the lower limit would be the wages they pay their employees to do the job.
Beware that income tax, workers compensation etc may be involved and you will want to talk with an accountant to make sure everything is above board.
Your parents and siblings maybe in for sticker shock when you should them how many hours you are helping and what it will cost them.
Best bet is to see the attorney who did the POA and have a caregiver contract drawn up. That way there is no question in the future about where the money went.
Go the mid range figure.
Have a contract established detailing what you are going to be doing for that "fee"
The contract should have a date that the contract is to be renewed. At that date if you are doing more than you were the fee can be adjusted. time, distance and
You should pay taxes on this income so whoever does your parents taxes should send you a statement.
Any expenses you have should be able to be deducted. So travel distance, fuel should be able to be deducted.
It became very difficult for me emotionally to do things for her, so the pay made me see it as a job, and it was much easier for me. My brothers weren't participating in her care, and I was. Thanks to my help, she never entered AL (she refused), so I ended up saving everyone money.
Here by me in Florida it runs $15-18 an hour, where my mother lived in North Carolina it was $12.50 per and this was through an agency, so a 1099 was issued.
Now I wonder how does the agency make anything when the rate is so low?
And there was a LOT of time needed to manage all the financial issues, pay his bills, balance his checking account monthly, manage all his financial accounts. That was time taken off work (spouse is an engineer with an MBA,) and is not paid $ 20 an hour at his regular job. The time off did impact his job reviews negatively. So that's a possibility. And he spent hours and hours tracking down several missing checks in the thousands of dollars, checks that were taken by my sister in law, who forged FIL signature, to pay her own bills. She was a spendthrift and had no use for any of the family other than when it came to have her hand out. I'm glad this is all done with...it was very stressful for my husband.
What you do need to do is to make sure that the total bill doesn’t come as a nasty shock that leads to it being questioned and ending up in court or in very bad feelings. A reasonable rate of pay and a lot of time consuming work may build up to a large amount that will affect inheritances and ability to pay for care in a facility, if that is necessary later.
We looked into Visiting Angels for her but decided against the service because of the six hour minimum. The extended family talked about it and I agreed to take time off of work to care for her at the amount that I was paid at my regular job. My bills didn't stop just because she needed more help. I did not charge for the time I did her grocery shopping because I was there anyway but all of the other away-from-home care added up.
After she passed, my SIL saw how much I had been paid and was surprised by the amount (she was on MIL's account but had never bothered to look or ask about it). I had kept good records of every doctor's appt, manicure, hair appt, trip to Walmart, etc. She didn't like it but couldn't argue with it. I also think she didn't realize how much I was doing.
For me, it comes down to the fact that your time is valuable. You are giving up the freedom that your siblings are enjoying and you should be compensated fairly for it.
I am there with you... I spent about 15 hours a week doing POA duties for my parents. It takes a toll and costs me to do so. As I do not need the mo ey, I do not charge. But I will charge the estate to be the executor. And I put an executor fee in my trust so there will be no question as to my executor getting paid for a time consuming task.
now if you were their PCA, CNA, HHA and Depending on their needs and your responsibilities, that's first and foremost. Are you trained HHA? What are their needs? Are you trained to address those needs? Very important for their health, safety, and yours as well. ok there is a lot to say here.
MOST IMPORTANT their NEEDS? POA is not a health care proxy, not a caregiver unless specifically designated in the document.
If parents have medicaid, Medicaid will pay you. They have a program.
IF Medicare, check their ins. co. New policies as of 2020 and certified home care is covered with someone companies. And if they do pay you out of POCKET, you could be responsible for income TAXES, and receive a 1099(I think) Form.
Do you work? Live at home? If at their home room and board should be payment enough and parents help with any minimal bills you might have. they cover electric gas heat mortgage rent etc etc. Many factors. I took leave of absence for almost 3 years and Medicare doesn't compensate family members. I wouldn't take payment ever but thats me. Am now trying to exist without my mom, emotionally, but again there are so many factors as I mentioned some but the average is $10.00-$15.00 for a caregiver or personal companion on the books but another aspect is the state you are in. and again that is for a caregiver not a.POA. And you can also get training. most HHA agencies have free training to certify you. In NY they do.There are also resources from any State Dept. of Aging you can look into to help you and your parents out.
I wish the best health and situation to you and your parents.
Check with the attorney who wrote up the POA.
SOrry for being all over. My thoughts are faster than I can type.
A care contract and good records of the services provided is the answer. The amount she should be paid should correspond with local rates for the service provided.
MY mom just left and I just want to say to you all that you are very special people and you are in my heart and thoughts.
Yes, it is not easy, but just remember...
They gave you their love & support... now it is your turn.
Sound like your siblings and you think you should be compensated? sounds more like you and you siblings are taking their finances ..
100% correct!!!!!!!!!
What happened to doing things out of love? Our parents didn't ask for compensation to raise us or to pay back all the money we cost them.
Wow is all I can say. Other cultures revere the elderly and argue over who gets to have the parent live with them.
The siblings agreeing you should be compensated is so they don't have a guilty cconscience. Reality check time.
My sister and I are caregivers for our mom (and I was for my dad until moving him to SCF) but my brother (out of town and clueless to the situations) felt we should care for parents out of the kindness of our heart. This while he sits at his highly compensated desk job. I lost countless paid from an hourly job, which I ended up having to quit, and from tending to my own business caring for parents that honestly never did a whole hell of a lot for me. For a short period of time, yes, it’s ok to help out, but for an indefinite period of time, caregiving is hard, and usually only gets harder and more frustrating. My mother is abusive and always has been. I won’t be shamed into thinking I’m not worthy of compensation and neither should you if your family is agreeable to it! I would say just keep it fair to what kind of job you are doing for them.
best wishes.