When do you know you've had enough?

If his nephew is going to kick him out and your estranged sister has offered to take him in (only a few blocks away from you!), it's the time to set very firm boundaries. You can bet your sister is going to expect YOU to do a lot for your father. She may even kick him out, and then all eyes will be looking to you to take him in.

Read up on FOG, Fear, Obligation, Guilt. You do not owe him anything.

Next you need to start setting boundaries, it will not be easy as you have a lifetime of conditioning to overcome. Stop one thing at a time. If he winds up moving in with your sister, do nothing to facilitate the move.

it took me 28 years with my Dad and 49 years with my Mum to realize how toxic they were. Now contact with both of them is 100% on my terms. I do not jump for either of them. Neither is allowed to cross the threshold of my home.

I told my mom that I had done everything that I could and she wouldn't help herself so I was not going to be carrying her load. She could do her very best and I would be there or she could continue to not take responsibility and I would not be there.

I didn't talk to her for 2 years. It was the best move I ever made. She learned that she couldn't hustle me and suck my life force.

Your dad has been immersed in the English language, he should be able to communicate enough to live here. He isn't even trying in my opinion and you can not care more about him than he does. He will suck you dry and not care, your nephew being done with his crap is proof of how it goes. Users use people and only you can say no. You should also back your husband up and tell your dad that you and your husband will not have him living with you. A united front stops a lot of manipulation from happening.

Let him live with the consequences of his choices, that is a good way for him to learn that he is responsible for his actions.

Guilt is for those who knowingly and with malice aforethought do harm to others. Guilt is the wrong word for what you are contemplating, so time to see what it is that you really feel. You have been well trained for a lifetime to give and expect nothing but trouble in return. It is what you "know". You will have to have courage and perhaps help to move away from abuse which you must understand will not change. You will never hear what somewhere inside you are longing for--the words "you are a good daughter, such a help to me and I love you".
It is for you to decide. But if you want a quality good life you will have to move away from abusive people. Gently and without anger. Perhaps even slowly, letting them know gradually that abusive behavior results in your withdrawal, kindly, but steadily. You already know all of this somewhere inside. You have to make a choice and you have been raised to feel wanting, needy and uncertain, desperate to change things. It will take time to change your reactions to this training and this person. I trust and believe you can do it.
We have two chances for family. The one we are born to and the one we create of friends and partners. I wish you so much luck. I am so sorry you are going through, and have gone through all of this.

I know, what you're asking here is how to stop caring so much.......how to stop feeling responsible for your father's misery; for the fact that he chose not to learn English while living in America all this time; for him not being able to keep a job or insurance, and on and on. You want to know how to make HIS life better in spite of the fact that he's done nothing to make his OWN life better. Right?

The answer is: You can't. Like Realyreal said, you can't care more about your father than HE does. That's HIS job. This is HIS life, you have yours. But, we've been conditioned over the years to feel an overwhelming responsibility for our parents, regardless of what they've done (or not done) to earn it. I fight the same demons you do on a daily basis, which is what 'qualifies' me to comment on your post. Sigh.

Sadly, however, I don't have "The Answer" for you any more than I have that answer for myself. What I CAN tell you is what I do with my very toxic mother who lives in Memory Care. I call her once a day (I am an only child and 'all she has') and I visit her once a week, or once every 12 days depending on the severity of her 'mood' at any given time. If she gets too nasty with me, I will either leave her presence or tell her I'm hanging up the phone. Those are the boundaries I have set down with my mother, having to be close by her, and being, literally, the only one to take care of her needs, both financial, medical and personal.

Figure out YOUR boundaries and then set them down in CEMENT. It doesn't matter what they are, just that they work for YOU and that you stick TO them. That lets your father know you Mean Business and you are not a Pushover.

Bottom line is, we can medically diagnose our parents with Dr. Google until the cows come home. Even if we're able to put a name to the personality disorder or whatever it is they suffer from, we can't change it. We can only change OUR reaction to it. Which means setting boundaries and not allowing them to be crossed.

Easier said than done, I know. I am working on taking my own advice a bit more these days, cuz it's easier to tell YOU what to do than it is for ME to do it MYSELF.

One day at a time, right? Good luck & Godspeed to you, my friend. And here's a big HUG for you as well.

I think you answered your own question by asking the question of when is it enough. You are justifiably concerned. I’m sorry your family has endured so much pain. It’s hard.

I wish you well. It doesn’t get easier. All we can do is learn coping skills and simply letting go of what we can’t do. I would not get overly involved with him. Live your life. You deserve to be at peace.

This forum is a tremendous help when we need others to lean on. We are here for you. Hugs!

I bet you come from a culture where children are expected to care for a parent. If so, that culture also believes that the husband has the last say. If so, then your Dad should understand when you tell him that your husband will not allow him to live with you. Should be no argument.

You may want to make sure that sister understands that if shecallows Dad to live with her, you will not be helping. You have done your part and he doesn't appreciate the help and asks for more.

Dad is only 56. This is not old. Harder to find work maybe but not impossible. If he has lived here over 5 yrs (I think it is), he maybe able to get Medicaid for health insurance. He needs to go to Social Services and see if he can get help. You are allowed to step back and say I am done.

Life is too short to keep toxic people in your life. It doesn't matter if it's a blood relative or a co-worker, or a neighbor. The toxic person doesn't care for or about you. They only care about themselves.

You cannot change someone else's behaviour. The only thing you can change is how you react. Stop calling him, stop doing for him. He'll figure it out. Basic human instincts will kick in ansd he will survive.

Go stand in front of the mirror and tell yourself you are too valuable to be treated like a doormat. Then hug yourself. You deserve it.

Hi Gwendolyn, you can't continue to live this way. Maybe you can try calling social services in the town that your father lives in (or have your nephew call). A lot of towns will offer services for people who can't speak English, or who have medical problems/ can't take care of themselves. It would at least give you a place to start with, and from there, he will need to take the initiative to get the help that he needs. Perhaps they can guide you as to some options that he may have. You need to start setting boundaries in your life. Don't feel guilty if you need to go limited contact or no contact. This is obviously starting to affect your life and your marriage. You do have a right to take care of yourself!

At the urging of my doctor and pastor I went very low contact. My situation was different from yours - my parents were not at all dependent financially but had some serious marriage problems that for whatever reason they would not seek counseling (very old-fashioned ideas that emotional problems meant you were stupid).
Stepping away was VERY good for me. They continued on, but had I stayed close it would not have made any difference to them. Since it was "doctors' orders" and okayed morally by my pastor, I found the strength and peace to follow through. I wish it would have been otherwise, but I finally realized that I could control myself, but not other people.

You obviously have a situation where you feel obligated to help your father, yet know that you can't do more than you already do or it would hurt your own family life. I think you are beating yourself up for no reason, doing what you can is all anyone should ever need. Not doing anything at all, well that is a choice that selfish people make, even knowing that they could, but just don't want to be bothered. I come from a family of those who did nothing at all, while knowing I had to do it all, talk about feeling unappreciated, how would you like it if your family turned you into villain for keeping a promise to your mother and staying in the family home to make sure your family would never put her in a home. Anyway, you need not be hard on yourself for doing the best you can. If your other family members are able to give him a home with them, you shouldn't feel obligated to move into their home as well, you have your own family, but every bit of what you can do helps. As for your father and his attitude, put yourself in his shoes. Would you be happy knowing you are a burden on your children? If there is a language barrier, think about how hard it is for him to explain to you that he's not mad at you, he may be mad at himself because he can't do these things you are doing for him, by himself. I remember when my mother couldn't get up or down, or in the bathroom, dressed, or make her own food and clean her own home. She would say to me, "What a revolting development this is!"
She was very independent, and a physical therapist, it has to be one of the hardest things to go through in life, your body giving out on you when your life was spent teaching others how to make their bodies work for them. Just don't be hard on yourself, do until you are satisfied, give him a kiss on the cheek when you leave him, smile at him. The hardness of all melts and they only have you to give them the warmth they need to tell them it's okay. You should try it, he only has one life to live, make him smile.

I think first of all, congrats for lasting this long! And 2nd, have you spoke to a social worker? They can help with some needs and health insurance is there for everyone, I thought. I'm poor & pay 1.32 a mth. But this is in California. Your dad at 56 , whether non English speaking and ailments definitely needs tough love! He's getting carma & needs to quit leaning on you! His sob stories are just that because he doesn't sound 56 but 82years old, like my dad, who's also depended on me, but I get paid through IHSS (In home supportive services), paid by Medi-cal). And I am self-employed gardener a few hrs a mth. That keeps my sanity, since aging mom & I share housing & she's declining also.
At times I want to run away!
Also my dad wasn't there emotionally & I definitely have resentments. I'm only child & never imagined it would be like this,brother died 10 years ago, but it is what it is.

Balancing our lives is easier said then done. I've become almost obcessed with the taking care of my dad and its taking it's toll. Must quit being perfectionist, but don't want to say " I could've" .

Reading your story is saddening and reminds me of so much brokenness in our marginal populations. You did not create your dad's problems. Your dad is an adult and apparently able to work. You should not have had to grow up with his lack of affection or support. As such, you do not "owe" him anything except a thank you to God for creating a healthy person - you - from your dad's and mom's DNA.

You are doing the right thing to see a doctor and a therapist. Seems that your kindness - well-meaning as it is - does not help your father in the long run. I would say he needs to learn how to be an adult and care for himself. Unless he is mentally or physically incompetent, you do not - legally - have to care for him.

He may have mental health issues and other issues. Your best way of helping him is to do things from a place of love - things you would do to help any one - that do not create dependency on you or create a problem for him. Do not expect a thank you or reciprocal signs of affection. Do not do anything that leads to a habit of "helping" on a regular basis. Consider your helps as "gifts" which should be occasional and as you and your hubby agree on.

Others have offered good advice about needing to set boundaries. If necessary I'd even let your husband be the heavy as in your marriage depends on your not doing x y or z and you are not allowed over here. You could meet out...IF you wanted to do that. But it seems after all these years you feel that guilt and sense of obligation to go cold turkey. I'm glad you're able to seek out help for yourself. As for Dad...he is not yet a senior so subsidized housing is going to be tricky to find, but some places it may start at 55...You might find some help with the local chapter of the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill.
Maybe you need to establish firm boundaries, in addition to not letting him in your home but still agree to connecting once a week or month?
Not that this was really the answer to any questions you asked because I have not done that...but I can relate in a way...
Good luck and take care...

It will take awhile for you not to feel obligated to him as that has been your pattern in this relationship for a long time. The fact that he is used to using you, being demanding and entitled and the fact that you do things for him to try to make him less abusive and to assuage your "guilt" as you named it. I agree though that guilt is the wrong term. I’m glad to read that you feel you have enabled him in a codependent relationship. Can you get this sorted out? Yes! I’m thrilled you are not only contacting your doctor but a therapist as you have many things to vent, discover and learn. Know that you are not responsible for his emotions, they are his. Likewise , only you can make yourself feel badly about your relationship issues with him. Know that you are entitled to a good life, without this stress. The old saying goes, he made his bed, and now has to lie in it.
I did stop contact with my dad for 2 months when I was going through a very mentally tough time with him due to a move to the NH and his anger over it. He is ok now, but I still only visit every few weeks. Know that it is ok to not only cut contact, but to put yourself, your husband and marriage first.
There is another good method mentioned on here when dealing with toxic or narcissistic people. It’s called "going gray rock.. just google it and read about the technique.
you can also do a search for it on this site. It will come in handy with both your sister and father.
keep coming here to vent and ask questions! Hugs!,

Someone a while back wrote of a method that they have tried Gray Rock Method.
If you search here you might be able to find the post and the replies or you can do an internet search.

Boundaries are important and if this person has not been supportive and causes you stress I am a firm believer of eliminating that as much as possible.
It is not your responsibility to care for your father.
You can not feel guilty about caring for your own mental health and you can't let anyone try to make you feel guilty for caring for yourself and for your family.

Do whatever it takes for your own sanity, health and life. Amazing how incapacitating mental illness can be yet allows expert button-pushing and manipulation of others. Speaking from literally a lifetime of experience since a teen. The death of my mentally ill mother 3 years ago was an enormous relief that has radically changed my life. Alas I am now in my 60’s. Get a lot of qualified counseling. And let go as soon as possible. You will not regret it. Hugs and blessings❤️.

Yes, my FIL was an alcoholic, whose first wife died early after having 6 kids in short course. He remarried a woman he had dated when he was like 18. I never could have a serious conversation with my FIL and stepmother was a real piece of work.
You must maintain your own sanity. Prayers to you.💞

What in heaven's name would make you even ask if you should get out of the picture. When someone has not had a loving relationship with you and was mean and continuously caused someone problems, you OWE THAT PERSON NOTHING. I don't care who it is or what is wrong with them mentally or physically, when their behavior and needs harm you and affect YOU mentally and physically in a negative way, YOU STOP TAKING CARE OF THEM AND REMOVE THEM FROM YOUR PRESENCE IMMEDIATELY. Do not be someone's fool. Think of yourself and your family and take care of yourself. There is no earthly reason to have even a slight drop of guilt for removing someone like this from your life. However, if you continue to do for them, then YOU are a FOOL. YOU DO NOT DESERVE THIS.

https://www.agingcare.com/articles/setting-boundaries-with-parents-who-are-abusive-142804.htm

Maybe this will help some?

I have had enough- that's why I am on this forum so much at the moment!

I saw it as two circles. My life circle & theirs. In the overlap, we spend time together, a call, visit etc. My circle was in danger of being absorbed into the other - with my purpose to provide support for her life to function the way she wanted. My life was disappearing. My free time, my hobbies, my relationships suffering, my mental health (my liver too!)

I was not prepared to lose my life so sought solutions. Lower contact. Reading Boundaries (by Cloud & Townsend). Locating support services, suggesting or making contact then stepping back have all helped me.

A social worker told me "Warn of dangers, offer suggestions, let them choose, step back".

I had a very good friend and she was also a counselor for family abuse issues. she told me that you have to make hard decisions in your life and it's ok to do so. My mother was very demeaning to myself and my children.
her advice was - Protect yourself and your family from a Toxic Person, no matter who they are, even your parent. I did step away from her for my well being and that of my children. Did I get grief about it, yes. but I felt so uplifted by stepping away from her.
I still love my mother but I cannot put myself or my children in the line of fire anymore. I have been very happy for the last two years with out her constant attacks.
you need to think of yourself and your family and step away from your father. He is an adult and needs to start functioning as one. He will never do so if others will carry him along and take on the responsibilities that he needs and should be doing.
Step away will be hard but in the end uplifting for you.
take care of yourself!!! first and foremost - take care of YOU!

I went low-contact with my mother for 5 yrs. She was emotionally needy and toxic to say the least! It was so freeing! And yes, I live with her now (due to circumstance) and take care of her, but I have boundaries in place and I don't let her cross them.

As Isthisrealyreal and lealonnie1 has stated "you can not care for them more than they care for themselves" is very true! Once I realized that I cared more about my mother than she cared for herself...it was over! I didn't stop caring...I just put a limited on what I was willing to do and what I could do. You can't care for someone who doesn't care for themselves! It is like banging your head against a brick wall. Your head will break before the brick wall will move! It isn't worth the headache!!

Decide now what you can and can not do and set your boundaries. If you decide that you have done all you can and that you have nothing to give your dad that is okay. Don't beat yourself up and don't feel guilty. You have a God given right to have peace, joy, and love. I always tell people; you have to love yourself because you are going to be with yourself for the rest of your life!

It is okay to put yourself first! Do not sacrifice your life to save your dad because at the end he will suck the life out of you and you will just end up hating him and yourself and have nothing to show for it!

Best of luck!
Hugs!!

Thank you all for your support! I read all these answers here to get some peace of mind, your comments and support have been extremely helpful. Life Update: My father moved down here and is now living with sis. Sis is barely making it by, sometimes has no food on the table.

Really hard for me to go through this as I feel horrible since I know I'm not going to go the extra mile anymore. I still keep contact with him for now, however it is more limited and I have not let him pass by my home.

He's started looking for a job, but truly I have no hope for this as this isn't the first time (at his nephews same deal, looking and was never able to maintain). My major anxiety comes from previous experience as when he was living here two years ago he became so sick and it was runs to the ER constantly (very very high sugar and blood pressure). Stress factor was usually at a ten and panic would set in. In fact, sometimes even passing by the ER (where i used to go with him) gives me a mini panic attack and i feel hopeless all over again.

Good news though, i booked appointment with my therapist and got a cat. I'm am trying to keep my cool and have faith. At this point though I'm am trying to not involve myself in the crisis, while also somehow helping him in what I can do.

Again thank you all for advice, if anyone has anymore please don't hesitate to post as I read these on and off to keep my head above water. Hugs!

I have learned from life's experiences, the hard way and because I was too naive and stupid, that once there are toxic people or situations in your life and they affect you negatively, no matter who or what is involved, you have two choices. You be a fool and allow yourself to be destroyed and your life and soul affected for years to come or you get strong and if you can't fix it, you WALK AWAY and never look back. No one deserves this or should allow it to happen. I know it is very hard to get going to move on but as time goes on, you realize it was the best and wisest decision you could ever have made and you will be so grateful you did move on. Do it now.

It sounds like you have made great progress already. Well done!

I totally get the future worry about ER & health crises though. Even if you are back in your own life & his life is his own to worry about, ER etc will be high risk times that his life can take over yours again. I know you can't plan for everything, but if/when things go wrong try to stop, breathe, go somewhere quiet to make time to respond the way you want : in a way that protects you.

I am still learning this myself. For years I was attending a relative in their home when fell. Now emergency service is called & I don't attend. I will meet later at ER (if it's required). Next step will be to let relative navigate the hospital system themselves (I will make short visit only). I went blue in the face with warnings & advice. No use. So stepped back. Now back again. Yes my relative truly needs help as cannot be truly independent (? maybe your Dad can't either..) but that does not mean I need to do everything they can't.

I will advocate for the right care instead - by phone where I can. Eg phoning hospital to advice Dad needs an interpreter, instead of sitting in the hospital for hours being the interpreter yourself.

I think it takes time to find the right place between the extremes of caring too much their life overrides yours & cutting someone off completely.

TAlk with your local social worker at a hospital.. Perhaps they can give you advice directly for your State. I don't know how to cut off people truly. I cut them off and hope they will contact me again in the future.. How messed up am I?

Honestly you and your sister or other children you dad has, should come up with a plan. 56 years old, isn't that old nowadays....Other close relatives, siblings he may have? Parents? Some people at the age of 60 still have parents, and some of those parents are clear headed.. so.... Does he have relatives in his birth place? You wrote that he doesnt' speak a word of English.. but does he understand it?
I know that is such an ordeal if you cannot speak the language. My friend's mom didn't cope and She was so depressed. She didn't want to come to America, her husband did. She did not want to learn to speak English. Pretty much refused... Perhaps talk with a social worker, and try to talk your dad into taking an ADULT Language/English class. Check your local library. Were you born here? or abroad? 56 years old, he should go to school adult school and learn a few English phrases. On that note, I should go to adult school and learn a few basic foreign phrases myself...Yes, I know cuss words in a few languages, but that's not what I'm talking about. Funny: I went to a wedding and the facility employees got into an argument with one of the guests. I didn't notice anything until I heard a couple of gentlemen getting upset.. and started cussing in their language.. I said "Oh oh, somebody's mad, you are not saying nice things!!" They turned an looked at me, totally confused.. and we started laughing. of course they apologized..They told me what was going on. They didn't know I I new some basic phrases.. :)

one of my jobs, the CEO of a bank was from Croatia, so he looked like the white American. Someone set him upon the freeway, all of a sudden this huge truck loaded with old tires, slammed the brakes in front of him, actually causing an accident. about 5 foreigners clambered out of the truck, acting like they only could speak their language. Mr. CEO speaks fluent SLAV, English, and another common language..unbeknownst to the poor fellows. He also drove an expensive car. He asked the poor blokes if they were okay. Yes they said astonished that he spoke their language fluently. Another driver saw the whole incident, and to Mr. CEO he said that he was targeted. a few days later, that tire truck driver and the people inside filed a lawsuit. At the end of the day, the attorney who filed, was disbarred, he had done this one too many times, and the poor blokes were found guilty too of fraud and transported back to their country. Mr. CEO died a couple years later of his injuries... He was a nice man. Broken hips on older people don't work out so well.. He really was a nice man. He fell out of the tow truck when they got to the auto garage.

My kid took 4 years of Spanish in high school.. The college my kid is going to now, here in america, is a lot of asians. my kid was goofing off, and overheard a college student say "Americans of course".. My kid hears everything, stopped and asked "What did you say?" Answer: did you hear that? WE didn't mean for you to hear that. So I suppose the next foreign language class my kid will take will be Chinese or Japanese, or something else.

Disney was right, IT'S A SMALL WORLD AFTER ALL, and with theDNA kits, it really is getting smaller. WE all come from somewhere... I didn't have to take a test I already know I AM A MUT. !!! spouse says I am a nut. True true.

So, try to get your dad help, no need tobring him into your home. You have a family, and it sounds like your family isn't too close to him yet. Small steps. Talk to a social worker at a hospital, or nursing home, and see what options you may have. Salvation Army, church, hospital, your doctor's facility may have information. us government for seniors website. your local state department.

Tell your sister to apply for MEALS ON WHEELS. They will bring 2 meals every other day... or something. So see if they have that in your area. At least there will be some food. Some grocery stores will have a bargain box of food that will be expiring in a day... check out those bargain shelves, usually in the back of the store. Local churches may help too.

Look up adult day care for your dad, then again, he is 56...He may not want that at this time....

I think the biggest clue that you’ve had enough is asking this question, don’t you?

Seriously, it gets old fast. It simply becomes too much to handle.
Best wishes to you. Hugs!