Need help dealing with a toxic mother...

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Need help dealing with a toxic mother...

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My mother is 82 and in assisting living with my father who has advanced Parkinson's. My mother is a miserable person. She recently said she is 'done with all of us', meaning me and my 2 sisters. (I'm 57, my sisters are 50 and 59). She has said she is disgusted with my sister's dating before her divorce is finalized. She doesn't approve of her grandchildren living with their significant other out of wedlock. I feel we are a huge disappointment to her in general. Nothing is ever good enough. The guilt she has put on all of us our entire life is overwhelming. She hates using the phone and never calls any of us but will text. Her recent text was about being 'done with all of us'. Those words have hurt greatly and I have not talked with her and she has not been in contact since then. How can we deal with her narcissistic toxic, guilt-ridden attitude? She did not have a great childhood, but I feel she's been making us all pay for it for a long time.

Assisted Living Mom Relationships

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So, what's new?
This is what you always dealt with and you are still dealing with it.
If you are waiting for her to tell you how mistaken she was, what marvelous, beautiful, competent and wonderful women you ALL are, you will be waiting a long time. She will be dead six months and still criticizing you. The important thing for you ALL is to find folks who WILL tell you what wonderful women you are. You have kept contact with this person for all your grown life, so you MUST be wonderful. More wonderful than me. I would be down to a 5 minute call to her on Sunday morning; that's where my partner ended with his Mom.
My advice for you is to understand she won't change, accept it so that forgiveness for her limitations can enter, and distance yourself.
You have dealt with this long enough to understand what you are dealing with. Deal with it less. She will be perfectly happy ragging on you to all the residents where she lives; you don't need to see and hear it to know she's happily at it.

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"She will be dead six months and still criticizing you."--this is PRICELESS! We had one member in our family who was somewhat like this.

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Your mother made you all aware how she felt about the relationships. This is not uncommon from the older generation.

Maybe she said She is through with all of you "out of frustration."

I would back away from her to see what happens. If she didn't truly mean what she said "She will come around." Time will tell.

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You have no reason to deal with anything, NOT ONE WORD, that she says.

NO ONE can “put guilt” on ANYONE unless the target is welcoming it. Guilt is a useless, powerless, non essential way of making ONE’S SELF feel bad. Why should YOU CARE about what she thinks? Or says? Or does?

If you wish to feel bad, you can probably find more reasons for that in the morning TV news, and you will then be free of giving your mother the gift of your misery.

If you and your sisters love one another, you are enjoying MORE LOVE than many people feel for a entire lifetime. On some level, your mother may love you dearly, but she has shown you that she is NOT CAPABLE of expressing love for you, nor does she want to. Listen to what she says and stop expecting of her something she is NOT CAPABLE of doing.

If none of you can deal with her, that’s OK. Her childhood is not your responsibility to address. You cannot change it. Don’t waste any more time trying.

If your dad is eager to ENJOY a friendly relationship with you, let that be your reward.

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All of you step back. Block her phone number. She is in a facility with your Dad. Let the staff know that you have blocked calls from Mum, but it something happens to Dad could they please call you.

You will never get your mother's approval, it is best for all of you to stop trying.

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Thank you all so much! You have hit it on the head!

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Your mom is a very wounded individual and learned from her own parents how to treat others. At her age it is ingrained and the pattern is stronger because of her internal misery and anger. She wants everyone to be just as miserable.

(1)

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Can I ask you one question? Do you love your mom?

I have been hurt by "words" all of my life by the people that I love. Yes, words hurt but LOVE out weighs HURT any day.

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Yes, I love my mom. And I think that's what bothers me the most. That she doesn't see that or feel that and continues to be so judgmental towards her children. It breaks my heart that she can't find happiness in anything.

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It's very sad that your mother can't find happiness within herself. Or contentment that her children are happy themselves.

YOU can't fix that. At best, you can encourage her to seek some psychiatric help for her sadness. But YOU can't make her happy.

And yes, you should step back, all of you. If she thrives on the drama of arguing and accusing, it is time to withdraw that source of narcissistic supply from her.

Triggering her does more harm than good. To both of you.

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thank you!

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You have allowed Mom to get away with this for years. Going to be hard to change her now. So, she won't change you have too. I would not tell her anything that she would feel was immoral. Ur sister dating before her divorce and the grands living with significant others she did not need to know about. I would keep my conversations general. I may not block her, maybe just not answer the phone letting it go to voicemail. When she gets started, tell her ur not discussing it. Try to change the subject, if it doesn't work, say goodby. Cut down ur visits.

For now, let her be miserable. In a few days text her saying your just checking in. You can always call the Nurse and ask how they are doing. Tell her Mom is a little put out with her family so she has blocked communication. This way the Nurse is aware if there are mood changes in Mom and if so why. Treat Mom like youvwould one of your kids. Don't play into her tantrums.

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thank you!

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I understand what you are saying. Just love her anyway. I know it hurts (I can say I have been there too) but do your best to try to overlook her "judgmental comments." It's only "words."

She is 82 years old.

I have heard people tell others (that they love) "I am done with you." It was just "words" "while they were upset". Not saying that it is right …. I am just saying. I bet your mom loves you too.

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JoAnn29 I applaud you if you have never said anything hurtful to "someone you love", your spouse, children, grandchildren, etc. while you were upset. "You are a good one."

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Am I the only one that has ever heard the saying "The ones that love you are the ones that hurt you the most?'

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Well, my mom is back to texting us about general things but no apology. We'll never get that. I guess we're supposed to forget about her harsh words.

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The no apology reminds me of my childhood. My mom would be angry at someone in the family and stop speaking to us. We tiptoed around her for a week or so, not knowing who did what to make her angry. She never said, just stopped speaking. Then suddenly there would be a cake or a pie and we knew the anger show was over and then we could laugh and play again. Our dad was always there for us, but he didn't know what to do about these episodes either, and also thought it might be him she was angry at. This went on for a few years. She finally learned somewhat to say what bothered her without the terrible punishing silence. But when my sons were teenagers she did the silent act for almost an entire year about something I allowed my sons to do that she disagreed with. My dad finally said "enough" and told her that he would no longer be in the middle of such craziness. It never happened again. Your mom might be too old for a good talking to, but it might be worth a try.

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So you are letting someone with a miserable attitude make you feel bad? You probably can't help her at this point, but you should seek professional counsel so you can lead a happy life.

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I doubt this is new behavior for her. If you don't feel like you can sit down with her and say "Mom, you may not like someone's behavior, but that doesn't mean you don't like the person. Dis-owning everyone in the family every time they do something you don't like is pretty childish and it's exhausting. Is this really how you want to spend the rest of your life?" If you don't feel you can be frank with her about it, then just don't share every single detail about the grandkids lives. People from her era did view living with someone as an immoral sin. Just agree to disagree on the matter and don't discuss it with her. Skirt over the topics that you know are a sore subject with her or don't discuss it at all. You're not going to change your mothers ways at this age, so I would take the high road and keep the peace.

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This is a common thing. I have a similar situation- a BPD mother who has attacked me her entire life. She is 88 now. My father was her whipping post for the past 10 years but he died last year. I live a continent away and speak with her every day. I just came to see her for 2 weeks, despite the dangers of COVID 19 to me on the flight, and all she has done is attack me. I am in therapy and have been for many years. I am good at setting boundaries and manage by living far away. But this doesn't stop the hurt of hearing "You and your brother are the worst thing that ever happened to me." All I am trying to say here is: the hurt she hits you with is real. You will never fix her, but you can do a few things: 1. Go into therapy or get self help books and really do the work in them if you can't afford therapy. 2. Set boundaries. Don't share anything she won't like, and also gently refuse to talk about it. My niece is gay and my mother says horrible things about gay people in front of me. I gently say, "Mom, I don't want to hear that kind of talk." She rages and screams at me and I steadfastly say , "I can see how upset you are, and I'm here if you want to talk instead of yell." Then I leave. Take care of yourself first and foremost. You cannot fix an abuser and narcissist. And don't lash out or you will feel worse later.

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Why would you subject yourself to daily abuse from a woman that has spent a lifetime abusing you? You should not be so available for her to use you as a scratching post, it is okay to back away from her.

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I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I too have a very toxic mother. My mother was was also abusive. My take on this is that she will never come around, and there will be no Hallmark moments. If she does call you to apologize it will be some sort of manipulation move until the next time she lays into all of you. I recently had to block my mother’s calls for awhile. She’s also in a facility and they will call me if there’s an issue. I sometimes hear “oh she’s your mother and she’s the only one you have.” I don’t agree with that at all. I have created my own chosen and loving family. They don’t say cruel things and they make me feel good about myself.

You say you love your mother, then maybe it’s time to deal with her directly and let her you love her but won’t put up with her constant criticisms and will be out of touch for awhile. Don’t feel guilty. It serves no purpose. You need to live a happy fulfilled life and stop worrying about what she says and if she will ever change. If she starts in with you, then tell her you need to go. Don’t fall for the bait! You are not responsible for her bad childhood and shouldn’t have to take the brunt of her anger. And don’t use that as an excuse: “well she had a bad childhood...” Many of us did and we don’t torture our children. As you say she’s been doing this a long time and it’s time for it to stop and for you to have some relief. And it will only get worse if you don’t deal with it now.

I don’t love my mother. But I still have chosen to oversee her care and insure she has what she needs, is safe and protected from the people that were taking advantage of her. I now do it from a distance with little communication. Set strong boundaries - it’s not easy!!! And if you need to talk to a counselor I can say I did and it helped me greatly.

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I agree--once you have made sure your mother (or other "toxic" person) is safe and receiving proper care, you have done all you can, and need to get on with your own life while getting away from this source of stress. You can either go "gray rock" or simply avoid all contact--and not feel guilty about it. Your life matters, too!

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Usually people who are unkind like that are very unhappy people and want you to be just as miserable so these are the tactics they use. You need to come to grips with her behavior not changin just because you wish she were different. That will help you accept it even though it can be hurtful at times. You can go Gray Rock on her (google it) a DNR I have a great little book for you written my a psychologist who counsels adult children of difficult parents. In it he gives tips on how to understand it and deal with them. I underlined the heck out of mine. Author is Paul Chafetz title is Loving Hard-to-Love Parents: A Handbook for Adult Children of Difficult Older Parents
He also does therapy sessions on Skype. My sister did one with him.

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Usually people who are unkind like that are very unhappy people and want you to be just as miserable so these are the tactics they use. You need to come to grips with her behavior not changin just because you wish she were different. That will help you accept it even though it can be hurtful at times. You can go Gray Rock on her (google it) a DNR I have a great little book for you written my a psychologist who counsels adult children of difficult parents. In it he gives tips on how to understand it and deal with them. I underlined the heck out of mine. Author is Paul Chafetz title is Loving Hard-to-Love Parents: A Handbook for Adult Children of Difficult Older Parents
He also does therapy sessions on Skype. My sister did one with him.

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Not sure how the DNR got in my above comment. I blame it on my IPad autocorrect

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She probably hates where she is living. Especially lonely if sge can't have visitors. Maybe this is her way of trying to get ya'll to let her move in.

You will just have to be up front with her and let her know how you feel.

It's ok that she has her morals and her opinions but after stating them once. That is all that is necessary.

Let her know that you and your sisters love her and want to visit her but then tell her how she makes you feel.

Try to work things out and or make your visits short and sweet.

Don't get in arguments with her as it takes two to tango.

Ignore the small things, change the subject on things ya'll don't agree on.

Aso her what you could do for her to bring her a little enjoyment then if you can, do it.

One day she won't be around and it'll be nice to know you did all you could.

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This is not a case of a sweet little old lady being lonely or bored. You cannot please a narcissist or make them be grateful. Ever.

It doesn’t matter if the OP “did all she could”. She already has and her mother is not and will never be satisfied. If anything, it hurts even more to do all you can and still get no love in return.

Mother is determined to be miserable. Nothing will bring her “a little enjoyment” because she does not want to enjoy anything.

The one who needs to die with a clear conscience is the mother; not the OP.

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You could be describing my mother. She also had a bad childhood and has never gotten over it. She has had enough therapy in her life that she should have come to some resolution by now but she hasn't. She is never happy with ANYTHING!! I never knew what a narcissist mother was until someone gave me the book "Trapped in a Mirror". I read it and it was like someone finally confirmed what I had been feeling my whole life. It was there in words. You will never be good enough for her and she will never give you the acknowledgement you so desire. You are lucky that she is in a place and you are not totally responsible. This gives you the ability to limit your time with her and if she gets nasty then you can walk away. I think of it as a spoiled child. If my mom starts the negativity, I say I need to go to do something else and will leave her house or hang up the phone. I am not going to sit there and let her say whatever she wants to me. Look up the gray rock method. This is what I have to do when I am around my mom. There is no excitement, no giving of anything outside of what she physically needs. It is the only way I get through it. It is very sad that our own mothers cannot get over what has happened in their lives and tell us they love us and how proud they are of us. I think even on her death bed, my mom would still find something to complain about!! I love my mom because she is my mom. I don't really like the person she is and would not have anything to do with her if she wasn't my mom. It is very sad to say that. She has created this not me. I am now and adult and can see through her personality that I could not see as a child. My only hope now is that she doesn't suffer in her alzheimers and that she doesn't outlive me. To be able to live and not feel the guilt of her after 50+ years is something I would love to experience. Sorry if this all sounds harsh...it is my current situation. I am an only child and my dad has passed. Her family does nothing and it is all on me. Even though I am the only one left to care for her, she still finds ways to try and guilt me and make negative comments. You would think she would be thankful since I am the only one who cares what happens to her, but it would be a cold day in hell before she would thank me. I am sorry you are going through this.

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I could have written this. Sometimes, part of the challenge seems to be to not become like her. You are doing everything you can for her, just remember to take care of yourself too.

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I'm the same age as you and have the same problem, only my mother doesn't usually bad-mouth family members; she just criticizes or demeans people in general for their weight, playing board games, setting up a gardening group to brighten their AL's communal space, etc., etc. I have never felt liked or approved of by her and really resent being put in the position of being responsible for most of her life, as she chose to move near us and abdicated that responsibility to us without any discussion. She has NPD characteristics so I've done a lot of research into the condition and how it affects relationships and now have a counsellor who is helping me to feel able to set boundaries without drowning in the guilt my mum induces if we don't put her first.

Not sure if you're lucky your mum will text - mine will have no technology at all and is losing cognitive ability to use even the phone and TV, so may have dementia as well as personality problems. But how we get her to be assessed by a doctor in a pandemic we don't know!

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We are back seeing doctors in the office, no problem, felt very safe.

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Your mother sounds like old school, the way it used to be is the way it should be today. Our society has changed a great deal. I myself like the old fashioned way of life, but that is me. I would have loved to grow up in my parents generation or earlier. My dad and mom did not believe in living together, my parents would make my siblings stay in different rooms when they visited for the holidays. I do not believe in living with someone out of wedlock either, but I do not criticize people that do, it is their business, but if they came to my house they too would be sleeping in different rooms. My parents were great in-laws, minded their own business and kept their mouth closed. The In-laws loved my parents and respected them. I learned over the years not to judge harshly and keep my strong opinions to myself. I am a believer in actions speak louder than words and I like peace plan and simple. Your mother will not change at this stage and we are all different human beings, some strong minded, others go with the flow, She might be hurt somehow and acting out through anger. It seems when someone has trauma at a very early age it becomes more apparent in later years, depression, anger, not getting along with others. Let your mom be for the time being and see if things get better with her attitude then talk to her and explain your concerns in a gentle kind manner. Can't change people, just like they can't change us. Difficult for the elder folks and us too. People are going to do and say what they want and we have no control over it. Spending less time if it is hard for you, taking turns with other family members, or just call the nurse to inquire on your mother are some ways to deal with such difficulty. Wishing you strength and peace.

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Beachgirl,
There are so many of us that are in the same boat!! You're in good company!!
Are Mom and Dad in the same room?
Is it possible to see Dad without seeing Mom?
My opinion is that you should respect what Mom said "I'm done with all of you "
So be it Mom!!
If she does reach out to you, then you can choose whether or not you want to communicate.
There are tons of videos on YouTube that talk about dealing with narcissistic parents.
A little research may be helpful.
Hang in there!

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During my moms last silent treatment I reflected on my life and realized I did not want to talk to her anymore. She had said too many awful things and a line was crossed that can not be uncrossed.

Now I am using gray rock to keep up very low contact. Do you still want contact? Gray rock will let you have some contact but for me I am emotionally detached. It’s not easy but better than the alternative. Guilt trips are emotional abuse and not okay.

Good luck. You deserve peace!

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How sad that you and your sisters have this kind of relationship with your mother. It’s possible she is sad, fearful and angry with the realisation that she and your father may be in their final years now, with nothing positive to look forward to. This is understandable, but you don’t have to be the whipping post for her unhappiness, and it is not your fault that they are elderly and ill. The angry texts sound like a way of lashing out at you, and clearly are not good for your health when they make you so unhappy. I assume that as they are in assisted living, they are safe and have help when they need it? If so, maybe you should avoid directly contacting her for a while, so you can take care of yourself. If she persists in sending angry texts, you are not obliged to respond to them, and could even block them if they get really abusive. Can you talk to your sisters about all of this? Maybe you can agree the best approach that you can all take. One thing is sure though: you and they don’t have to be burdened with guilt and feelings of being a disappointment to your parent, and you’re entitled to live your lives how you want to.

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Totally empathize with you. My mom, also, had a difficult upbringing, specifically with her Mother. Interestingly enough she has become just like her. Verbal abuse damages relationships and individuals’ self-confidence. I am sure you know this. Sometimes you have to be firm but respectful. I have had to stay away but stay available if necessary. We do not have the ability to choose our parents but when we become an adult, we can choose how much time we spend with them. It hurts when parents say hurtful words but try hard to not let it define who you are. I have learned how NOT to treat my children. Spend time with people who lift you up, appreciate who you are and most importantly- pray! Our Living, Heavenly Father is available to to you in your day to day struggles and celebrations!

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I’m so sorry for your painful ongoing situation. I would be getting counseling from a counselor who specializing in narcissism. Your mother will not change, but you can change yourself to minimize the fiery darts thrown at your heart.

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Guilting people only works if you accept the guilt. Don't accept the blame or her toxic behavior.

Are you responsible for her care? If so, deal with that. Attempt to have pleasant conversations, redirect conversations when they go awry and decide in advance what you will do when she goes on a rant... maybe call the end of the visit.

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This is just an idea. When your mother disapproves of you, move the conversation back to her own childhood. Encourage her to express her anger about what happened to her. It might even be hellfire sermons, or her parents' disapproval of her friends. Perhaps (just perhaps) she is still taking out on you and your family her own anger, which she feels has never been acknowledged. If you want the last word, say that you feel so glad that your own family is so much happier with each other than she was able to be. You can do this in texts too. You may be able to make this an automatic response for you to make, that diverts her and stops you thinking about what nasty thing she has just said.

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Imho, she no doubt is this way because of her own unhappiness and wants you to join in to the pity party, though I do not profess to be a psychiatrist. She will not change. However, you can be your own sweet self. Virtual hugs sent.

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bevthegreat Gave you some good advice.

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